Mercedes GP MGP W01

[marcush.]

haha ,in contrast Schumacher was very positive about the Pirellis on RTL today he was surprised and found a good read for them ,as also reflected by the times?

this entity is a mysterium to me and i would not be surprised to hear Rosberg moaning to have been robbed of his beloved Jock Clear when he faces a stronger opposition come 2011...

[vinuneuro]

I remember reading shortly after Pirelli was announced as the supplier that weight distribution would be the same for all teams to rule out the possibility of someone getting lucky since 2011 car development began well before this and future tests. So it should help these guys somewhat if they're still struggling with mechanical aspects.

[JohnsonsEvilTwin]

Right so a another Rosberg interview where he sounds more optimistic.

http://www.autosport.com/news/report.php/id/88439

He says on other site the W01 gave them reams of data for next years car. Perhaps in terms of what not to do?

[Intego]

F1 is a PR machine and drivers and team staff speak like politicians, what is really annoying. Rosberg doesn't (or doesn't always). In the middle of the season he was told by his team not to be that honest to the press. What did he? Went to the journos and said "I mustn't say catastrophe and disaster no longer. It will be misunderstood. I must now say, it didn't work out." =D>
(Sorry, my own translation and I can't translate the humor of "es lief ungünstig").
German source here (but I also saw it on TV).

[segedunum]

[...]
The Pirelli is a control tyre, just as Bridgestone was, produced within a reasonably narrow set of requirements so it is natural that it will end up being fairly similar. The only thing that might be different is the wear rate, but in terms of construction and characteristics there isn't going to be any big difference as there was between the old Michelins and Bridgestones.

Massa might be helped if the tyres warms up somewhat quicker and wears a bit quicker, but Schumacher and his followers are going to be extremely disappointed if they think that the whole front-end characteristics of these cars are going to change with these tyres to help him. The days of him going to Bridgestone with his requirements have long since gone.

[ringo]

The fastest driver is a reference for the other one," explained Schumacher in a German motorsport magazine.

"You see the data of how he drives, but it didn't work quite so well in the other car. Looking back, there were a few things (wrong) with my car.

"The exhaust got so hot that sometimes the underside of the car burnt or the F-Duct (a system to help the airflow) was triggered in parts of the track where it shouldn't have been."

Passive system confirmed.

[Carmack]

Passive system confirmed.

Honestly, we knew that for a long time... a copy of McLaren's F-duct they used in Monaco '09 (if i'm correct)

[marcush.]

The fastest driver is a reference for the other one," explained Schumacher in a German motorsport magazine.

"You see the data of how he drives, but it didn't work quite so well in the other car. Looking back, there were a few things (wrong) with my car.

"The exhaust got so hot that sometimes the underside of the car burnt or the F-Duct (a system to help the airflow) was triggered in parts of the track where it shouldn't have been."

Passive system confirmed.

I don´t think so .He said it triggered itself on and off when it shouldn´t that is VERY active by definition!
What he said it was triggered by something not in his control .thats not necessarily
describing a passive system but a malfunction.
analogy: -sticking throttle-

[ringo]

The fastest driver is a reference for the other one," explained Schumacher in a German motorsport magazine.

"You see the data of how he drives, but it didn't work quite so well in the other car. Looking back, there were a few things (wrong) with my car.

"The exhaust got so hot that sometimes the underside of the car burnt or the F-Duct (a system to help the airflow) was triggered in parts of the track where it shouldn't have been."

Passive system confirmed.

I don´t think so .He said it triggered itself on and off when it shouldn´t that is VERY active by definition!
What he said it was triggered by something not in his control .thats not necessarily
describing a passive system but a malfunction.
analogy: -sticking throttle-

A sticking throtle is active, becuase it can be actively adjusted based on the drivers requirements; this wing is not.

It's an open loop/ passive system that is malfunctioning.
Active means it can adjust itself to operate within a set range of parameters, based on inputs.
This system does not respond to inputs to stay within a set range of parameters.
It simply accepts the inputs and process them without any control or feedback.

A good analogy of an active system is a toilet tank with a filling pump, a level sensor and shut off valve that responds to the sensor, to maintain tank level as the pump fills.

A passive system is like the toilet tank with a timed pump, that fills for a pre calculated pumping time then shuts off. However there is no sensor or shut off valve to keep things within spec, in case the pump or fluid behaves differently.

The W01 wing, is like the passive tank. Various things can happen to throw off the system:
The tank can have a leak and the pump never replaces the water, because there is no feedback.
The pump can over or under speed, but still shut off within a preprogram time regardless; under or over filling the tank.


So, i would say this wing is malfunctioning because it cannot respond to inputs that it was not modeled for. Maybe changes in air density, turbulence, moisture content, and surface roughness inside the wing.

[timbo]

A sticking throtle is active, becuase it can be actively adjusted based on the drivers requirements; this wing is not.

It's an open loop/ passive system that is malfunctioning.

While I too think it's passive, what Michael said doesn't rule out active version actually — active system can be mistriggered too.

[segedunum]

Passive system confirmed.

Really? It sounds like an active system that doesn't fecking work to me.

[ringo]

Yes an active system can be mistriggered, but it would simply stabalize itself; This would come in the form of the driver's input.
An active system simply would not behave erratically as Shu described it.

Months ago in the aero thread it was proven that the duct can operate passively and tuned to trigger a given speed. In fact it is the simpler of both designs.

Shumacher was simply on for the ride, he had no control of the system.

[ringo]

Passive system confirmed.

Really? It sounds like an active system that doesn't fecking work to me.

was triggered in parts of the track where it shouldn't have been."

The words shouldn't sounds like something that is working independently.

explain why it sounds like an active system. And do we have evidence of this being active? Any schematic drawings of shots of the in cockpit hole, and plumbing through the foam filled end plates.

[raymondu999]

I'm not quite convinced it would stabilize. An active f-duct, technically has an on switch, but no off switch. If something funny activates it, how would the driver turn it off?

Active/passive systems could both be mistriggered.

[marcush.]

oh closed loop vs open loop ....
my favorite.
A hand operated f-duct is nothing else than steering a car or applying throttle.Input is given by human and the system responds to it with a defined answer.so clearly a closed loop as long as no secondary parameters are f.....it up.
If your f-duct is using a secondary input to allow or reject activation -lets say ambient temperatur ,or jaw angle I´m convinced it has open loop capability.