Ideas on 2011 Formula One innovations

Here are our CFD links and discussions about aerodynamics, suspension, driver safety and tyres. Please stick to F1 on this forum.

Who is going to bring the unexpected innovation next year?

Redbull
16
17%
Mclaren
24
26%
Ferrari
8
9%
Mercedes
24
26%
Renault
11
12%
Williams
4
4%
Force India
1
1%
Sauber
3
3%
Other
3
3%
 
Total votes: 94

Formula None
Formula None
1
Joined: 17 Nov 2010, 05:23

Re: Ideas on 2011 Formula One innovations

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riff_raff
riff_raff
132
Joined: 24 Dec 2004, 10:18

Re: Ideas on 2011 Formula One innovations

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One thing that seems strange about the 2010/2011 rules is the prohibition of magnesium. Is it due to a fire hazard? Magnesium wheels and transmission housings have been used in the past, so why not now?

As for the adjustable aero devices, apparently they can be enabled/disabled at any time by the race stewards.
"Q: How do you make a small fortune in racing?
A: Start with a large one!"

Formula None
Formula None
1
Joined: 17 Nov 2010, 05:23

Re: Ideas on 2011 Formula One innovations

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3.17.5 Bodywork may deflect no more than 5mm vertically when a 2000N load is applied vertically to it at three
different points which lie on the car centre line and 100mm either side of it. Each of these loads will be
applied in an upward direction at a point 380mm rearward of the front wheel centre line using a 50mm
diameter ram in the two outer locations and a 70mm diameter ram on the car centre line. Stays or
structures between the front of the bodywork lying on the reference plane and the survival cell may be
present for this test, provided they are completely rigid and have no system or mechanism which allows
non-linear deflection during any part of the test.
Furthermore, the bodywork being tested in this area may not include any component which is capable of
allowing more than the permitted amount of deflection under the test load (including any linear deflection
above the test load), such components could include, but are not limited to :
a) Joints, bearings pivots or any other form of articulation.
b) Dampers, hydraulics or any form of time dependent component or structure.
c) Buckling members or any component or design which may have, or is suspected of having, any
non-linear characteristics.

d) Any parts which may systematically or routinely exhibit permanent deformation.
No more flexy wings. The "suspected of having" part seems like a pretty BS excuse by the FIA for not having the capability to test their assumptions. Also, they listed about every guess that was in the Flexing Wing Controversy thread; i.e. the FIA still have no idea how it was being done. :lol:

Formula None
Formula None
1
Joined: 17 Nov 2010, 05:23

Re: Ideas on 2011 Formula One innovations

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There's a portion for 2012 regs as well, is this normal?
21.8 Changes to Article 20.3.4 :
20.3.4 Any camera or camera housing fitted in the left hand position 2 shown in Drawing 6 (aka front nose mounted camera) must be
mounted in order that its major axis where passing through the centre of the camera lens (or
corresponding position for a camera housing) does not intersect any part of the car lying forward of
the camera or camera housing.
Guess they didn't like the Red Bull solution.

User avatar
machin
162
Joined: 25 Nov 2008, 14:45

Re: Ideas on 2011 Formula One innovations

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To me this reads as if the blade IS allowed:-
2011 Regs wrote:15.2.4 The principal roll structure must have a minimum enclosed structural cross section of 10000mm², in vertical
projection, across a horizontal plane 50mm below its highest point. The area thus established must not
exceed 200mm in length or width and may not be less than 10000mm2 below this point.
E.g. a structure whcih is 50mm wide and 200mm long would give the necessary 10,000mm².
COMPETITION CAR ENGINEERING -Home of VIRTUAL STOPWATCH

marcush.
marcush.
159
Joined: 09 Mar 2004, 16:55

Re: Ideas on 2011 Formula One innovations

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so the one thing that is still allowed to flex is the tub... :wtf: lets see how far Newey got with that..

Formula None
Formula None
1
Joined: 17 Nov 2010, 05:23

Re: Ideas on 2011 Formula One innovations

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riff_raff wrote:One thing that seems strange about the 2010/2011 rules is the prohibition of magnesium. Is it due to a fire hazard? Magnesium wheels and transmission housings have been used in the past, so why not now?

As for the adjustable aero devices, apparently they can be enabled/disabled at any time by the race stewards.
12.3 Wheel material :
Wheels must be made from AZ70 or AZ80 magnesium alloys.
Seems like mag wheels are still in (unless you meant another alloy). It does state that no engine parts can be magnesium, though. When was the last time F1 had a magnesium fire?

Formula None
Formula None
1
Joined: 17 Nov 2010, 05:23

Re: Ideas on 2011 Formula One innovations

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No changes to the suspension regs, except for details on the tethers. You know what that means. No frozen honey ban! :lol:

Mmmm, delicious RB honeycicle pole position, argharglargl...

Image

gridwalker
gridwalker
7
Joined: 27 Mar 2009, 12:22
Location: Sheffield, UK

Re: Ideas on 2011 Formula One innovations

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conni wrote:
gridwalker wrote:Alas the blade is banned, to be replaced with a traditional roll hoop, though this is not to say that the airbox inlets still can't be moved away from the conventional position like they did for 2010, freeing up the flow through the hoop to the rear wing.
i know of at least 2 teams using the blade this year

conni
I hope that these teams haven't invested too much into the blade concept : http://scarbsf1.wordpress.com/2010/12/1 ... explained/
Scarbs wrote:Mercedes surprised many with their blade-like roll structure, reducing the obstruction to the rear wing and allowing for a much shorter inlet tract for the engine, the solution was likely to be copied. A minimum cross section forced teams to have a wider section above the drivers head, negating the fundamental benefit of the solution
The FIA wrote:“15.2.4 The principal roll structure must have a minimum enclosed structural cross section of 10000mm², in vertical projection, across a horizontal plane 50mm below its highest point. The area thus established must not exceed 200mm in length or width and may not be less than 10000mm2 below this point.”
"Change is inevitable, except from a vending machine ..."

marcush.
marcush.
159
Joined: 09 Mar 2004, 16:55

Re: Ideas on 2011 Formula One innovations

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10000mm²/200mm =50mm minimum width 50mm below the top .I´m quite sure that this is not more than Mercedes had ...

User avatar
machin
162
Joined: 25 Nov 2008, 14:45

Re: Ideas on 2011 Formula One innovations

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machin wrote:To me this reads as if the blade IS allowed:- E.g. a structure whcih is 50mm wide and 200mm long would give the necessary 10,000mm².
Marcush that's what I thought when I posted above -50mm doesn't seem much wider than the Merc blade this year...
COMPETITION CAR ENGINEERING -Home of VIRTUAL STOPWATCH

gridwalker
gridwalker
7
Joined: 27 Mar 2009, 12:22
Location: Sheffield, UK

Re: Ideas on 2011 Formula One innovations

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Well that'll show me the folly of just blindly reposting before doing the math ... Still, if this is effectively reinforcing the status quo, it does beg the quesiton why this regulation was written.

Maybe to prevent more extreme (and potentially dangerous) interpretations being introduced?
"Change is inevitable, except from a vending machine ..."

marcush.
marcush.
159
Joined: 09 Mar 2004, 16:55

Re: Ideas on 2011 Formula One innovations

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machin wrote:
machin wrote:To me this reads as if the blade IS allowed:- E.g. a structure whcih is 50mm wide and 200mm long would give the necessary 10,000mm².
Marcush that's what I thought when I posted above -50mm doesn't seem much wider than the Merc blade this year...
I actually read it ..sorry for not quoting you ...I was surely not trying to steel laurels there...for that math!!! :mrgreen:

User avatar
machin
162
Joined: 25 Nov 2008, 14:45

Re: Ideas on 2011 Formula One innovations

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I was just agreeing with your statement that 50mm doesn't look wider than the Merc blade this year!
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User avatar
machin
162
Joined: 25 Nov 2008, 14:45

Re: Ideas on 2011 Formula One innovations

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gridwalker wrote: Maybe to prevent more extreme (and potentially dangerous) interpretations being introduced?
How thick are the conventional roll -structures? -this rule means you need one of 50x200 or two of 25x200... 25mm thick seems larger than today's conventional roll-hooped cars?

Have they increased the roll-over test load? I think they have (article 17.1.3)... maybe a single blade which is 50mm thick is difficult to achieve the test load with deflection of just 25mm...???
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