2014-2020 Formula One 1.6l V6 turbo engine formula

[ringo]

Power is not something that is a vector quantity. You can have 5000 hp in an explosion, but with nothing to channel that you are left nowhere mechanically.
Torque is what makes power useful. It creates rotary motion. Power accelerates through torque.

Imagine a connecting rod connected to the crank main bearing with zero torque arm?
The power goes into destroying the crank shaft.

Those graphs i plotted were with a constant power engine.

These graphs are from equations, they can't be wrong. I used the BMW M5 gearbox speeds and final drive, 24 inch wheel diameter, with a 500kW, constant speed engine.
And a 940kg car mass.

[autogyro]

Indeed Auto: Ideally I want a really light engine that might well be peaky, and therefore I want a gearbox with lots of gears that lets me produce that power at any concievable road speed without having to change gear..... I wonder....

Ooooo a cvt!!!!

CVTs have a very narrow ratio range. You would have extra gearing anyway including reverse. Then you have to find extra energy to move the cones or discs and maintain drive friction, which is a lot for 650 bhp at the lowest ratio.
On top of that you have to convince the driver to drive something that has a powertrain feel like a banana in a bowl of custard, either that, or con him like they do now with road CVTs and build in virtual stepped ratios.
Totaly pointless exercise.

[machin]

Ringo; your graphs must be wrong!

Actually, they're not wrong, you just haven't done one for a constant power engine......

EDIT: Ooo you say you have used constant power.... don't know what's gone wrong then!

[machin]

CVTs .......
....Totaly pointless exercise.

Didn't one of the top F1 teams build a cvt f1 car.... and then cvt's were banned!

[ringo]

force against engine speed in each gear?

It will look exactly like the wheel acceleration graph since there is a linear relationship with acceleration and force. F=ma.
Multiply the Y axis of the acceleration graph by the mass and that will be your wheel force.
I could post it to give you peace of mind, but it doesn't make a difference in the curves aside from scale.

The wheel force and torque decreases with increased engine speed, just like the wheel acceleration, for a constant power engine.
Doesn't matter if it's 7th 3rd or 1rst gear.

[xpensive]

Power is the scientific way to describe energy conveyed per time unit, it's universal and can be discribed in many different fashionss, not only mechanical. But if we stick to the latter, as Mauro Forghieri put it "Torque without rpm is nothing".

Xactly what crossed my mind in the workshop the other day, when I found a manual asking the men to torque a certain large-thread clamping nut with 800 Nm. I asked one of the guys about it, why he spit it out how much "work" it required.

I didn't have the heart to tell him that half a turn of 800 Nm represents no more mechanical energy than 2400 Joule, equalling the energy of about 0.25 cc of booze.

[autogyro]

CVTs .......
....Totaly pointless exercise.

Didn't one of the top F1 teams build a cvt f1 car.... and then cvt's were banned!

Thats right Williams.
It is something I was at odds with Patrick Head over at the time Coulthard tested it.
Notice how Williams carried on with the toloroidal CVT drive for KERS and then dropped it in favour of an induction charged flywheel system, when they realised the energy losses and mechanical complications in the CVT.
Porsche have capitalised on the flywheel system from Williams and it is probably why VW are thinking of coming in to F1. So Patrick is still up there with the best IMHO.

[WhiteBlue]

Perhaps the FiA should express the energy restrictions in pints of beer equivalents.

[autogyro]

Perhaps the FiA should express the energy restrictions in pints of beer equivalents.

Haha, pints of beer great and I will pay for them with Wicki leaks.

[strad]

An engine making ~600BHP at 12000rpm will produce 262.5lbft of torque. Lets say it has a diff ratio such that this = 200mph. At 6000rpm (100mph) it also makes 600bhp, but now the torque it produces is 525lbft. At 3000rpm (50mph) it still makes 600bhp but now torque is 1050lbft

HUH?????

[machin]

Ringo: I see what you've done; You've confused the matter by showing engine speed on the x-axis...... please post a graph showing Force at the wheels (y-axis) against road speed (x-axis); what you'll find is that all the lines line up (one will be on top of the other), and they'll effectively create one curve.... What you'll see then is that you might as well chuck away all but top gear (this only applies to a constant power engine -not a peaky engine which only gives max power at a small range of speeds -in that case more gears is better).

Please?

[machin]

infact, make it vehicle Acceleration (Y-Axis), and road speed (X-Axis)... it'll save another round of debate....!!!!

[piast9]

Hm. My car has certain power at, for example 4krpm. And I am sure that when it reaches this engine speed the acceleration is better if I have it on the 1st gear than on the 2nd. So even if that power was constant over certain range of rpms it would be better to have lower gear engaged.

[ringo]

Ringo: I see what you've done; You've confused the matter by showing engine speed on the x-axis...... please post a graph showing Force at the wheels (y-axis) against road speed (x-axis); what you'll find is that all the lines line up (one will be on top of the other), and they'll effectively create one curve.... What you'll see then is that you might as well chuck away all but top gear (this only applies to a constant power engine -not a peaky engine which only gives max power at a small range of speeds -in that case more gears is better).

Please?

Yes they will line up. Because they have the power in common.
However this is representative of all gears combined, not one gear ratio.
This is more like a CVT than a single gear ratio.

Maybe you have confused a CVT that has infinite gear ratios(within a range of course), with a single gear ratio.

The downfall of a single gear ratio is the fact that the engine does not rev till kingdom come.
If an engine revved to no end, then you could chose 1 gear, a low gear like first, instead of choosing 7th as a single gear to get your top speed.
Then you will get the torque you need to accelerate. However the F1 engine will only go to 12,000rpm so you will be force to chose a gear with weak acceleration.

More gears are better than 1, especially torque multiplying gears. If you go with one with a high torque multiplying factor, you engine better rev to the high heavens.

[xpensive]

...
The downfall of a single gear ratio is the fact that the engine does not rev till kingdom come.
...

A constant power, single geared engine, only has to rev til the air reistance balances the propulsion force from the wheels.