Ongoing corruption in future electric vehicle development.

[autogyro]

The whole electric vehicle development industry is being carefuly controled and directed by governments.

Electric vehicles are not alternate energy vehicles, they are simply a different method of applying any energy source to vehicle traction.
The recent government grant strucures and competitions for them are a method of massaging public opinion nothing more at present.

Paying lip service to the World CO2 issue is all it is.

Unfortunately this has created a large number of companies and incentives, whos sole purpose is to build EVs and hoover up grants and investments. There are little if any radicaly new ideas in the technology used and the whole thing achieves a diluting of the advances in electric traction that should be happening.

Until there is a government led drive to improve the electric distribution grid and establish a workable coverage of re-charge sites throughout this (UK) and other countries, the whole EV industry will remain actively held back by the fossil fuel and ic vested interest.

It is a bit like the Romans being held back by the stone age.

[andrew]

Electric motor vehicles are a false hope. Disguise it as any conspirocy theory you like but electic vehicles are not a praticle solution.

Sure getting oil out of the ground and refining it is not particularly environmentally friendly, but neither is generating electricity, or battery manufacture and disposal.

From an environmental position electric vehicals is a fallacy. The problem is the eco-hippies, lefties and gaurdian readers refuse to enter into any sensible discussion and have just decided that fosil fuels are evil and that's that.

Hydrogen fuel cells are the only realistic alternative going forward.

[autogyro]

Hahahaha
Hydrogen fuel cells. OK if you are NASA and flying rockets.
No good for road vehicles. CNG is the only practical source and that will run out shortly after oil. Have you ever (even slightly) taken a look at how to distribute liquid hydrogen at below freezing temperatures? It makes me laugh realising that people are out there seriously considering such a daft idea.
Electric vehicles can be far more efficient and convenient than any form of on board energy production system for land vehicles of all sorts.
I dont care whether fossil fuels are an evil increasing global warming or not, perhaps the drowning Australians can discus that with you.
I am simply stateing that electricity is a far better way to apply energy in a vehicle where ever and from what ever energy source it originates.
A re-charging infra-structure can be built that would be far far more efficient than the current liquid fuel distribution joke we have been forced to labour under for two centuries. If the world could be rid of that liquid fuel distribution joke, CO2 would be reduced by over 50 percent before we even started to improve the energy sources.

[andrew]

Hahahaha
Hydrogen fuel cells. OK if you are NASA and flying rockets.
No good for road vehicles.

You can laugh all you like but hydrogen is a viable option. The Honda FCX Clarity is an affordable good sized car that has a hydrogen fuel cell.

Or maybe you just bought a Gee-Whiz and are very proud of it.....

[autogyro]

Hydrogen is simply not an option.
It is being banded about by the oil companies to justify drilling for CNG.
Honda can easily build a car to run on hydrogen, it is a better fuel for an ic engine than petrol or diesel as are LPG methane ethanol and methanol.
Fuel cells are also available for ethanol and methanol, although obviously not as far developed as those for hydrogen, simply because billions were spent on hydrogen fuel cells by NASA for use in space. Makes sense to generate electricity from it, when you have thousands of gallons of the stuff stored next to you in a rocket ship.
There is absolutely no comparison to electric traction because electricity is NOT an energy source. It does not matter to me whether you source energy from hydrogen, oil, CNG or any of a million sources.
Electricity simply needs storage for use in a vehicle, it does not need any form of energy production on the vehicle. Why produce energy inefficiently on a vehicle when you can poduce it far more efficiently at a central point and distribute eectricity to charge points throughout the country.
Why waste time finding a petrol station to fill your vehicle with a heavy liquid, when you could plug in almost anywhere you stop and re-charge with a weightless chemical change. Fully charged car in the Morning charged at home and with the heater already on if needed ready to go in any temperature. Charged at the supermarket or at your place of work. Even recharged on the move on sections of motorway through induction when a long trip is required.
The current problem is not electric traction it is the stone age energy infra structure the greedy force us to accept.

[andrew]

So electric's the way forward eh?

So we all end up driving electric cars with charging point all over the place and charging points in every home. Everyone gets home from work at say between 5.30 and 7 and the have to all charge their electric car overnight. Somehow I don't think the national grid could take that without major upgrading. So new power stations are built, more electric lines are burried/erected on pylons etc etc. I guess that is environmentally friendly. Then there would probably be rolling blackouts through the huge demand on an all ready stretched power grid. But assuming that the grid can cope, the demand for extra electricity will increase fuel consumption in power stations thus realesasing even more toxic gasses and wotnot. If anything, electric cars will increase damage to the environment.

Face it, petrol and diessel are the lesser of two evils.

[spacer]

That's why a lot of (government) research is currently devoted to the implementation of so called smart grids (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Smart_grid).

In other words: we're preparing our grid for the simultanious demand in energy before we massively start to sell and drive EV's.

[andrew]

All at a huge cost of the tax payer anf not doubt the Government will eventually decide after a very costly study that it is not feasible.

[autogyro]

Nope, I am fitting my own wind turbine out back and many others are considering it.
The energy demand on a 'smart' grid balances unused vehicle battery energy back into the grid when not needed.
You can also get paid for all the excess electrical energy going back into the grid if you have a wind turbine.
Every village should have at least one. (very 19th century if you dont have at least one)
My friend on the Scotish island of Giga gets all his energy from their community owned turbines as does the whole island and all its energy needs and they make thousands every year in profit from the excess.
Of course the oil companies will not tell you any of this and government will carefuly control the info.
Guess what, supermarkets are ideal for siteing wind turbines in most cases.
So of course are race tracks, as I have stated in my official paper on EV formula racing put before the FIA AEC last year. Fully carbon neutral motorsport.
F1 will one day be all electric, the sooner the better.

[autogyro]

All at a huge cost of the tax payer anf not doubt the Government will eventually decide after a very costly study that it is not feasible.

If we let the vultures and criminals that govern us to tax back electric vehicles then we are doomed for certain.
I know most so called civilised people in the world are now almost complete lemmings but there has to be at least a little hope left.
Start with the Murdochs and vile people like Briatore, at least that might be a start.

[mx_tifoso]

I think we've had our fair of these arguments so until further notice this thread will be locked. If it was the first time this topic comes up and it was without the endless agendas then fine, but it isn't and I doubt it'll be the last.