Ferrari 150° Italia

A place to discuss the characteristics of the cars in Formula One, both current as well as historical. Laptimes, driver worshipping and team chatter do not belong here.
Just_a_fan
Just_a_fan
593
Joined: 31 Jan 2010, 20:37

Re: Ferrari F150

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forty-two wrote:
Just_a_fan wrote: The idea was that the stays might alow downward flex at speed which would place the floor nearer the ground. The nearer the ground the better it works.
Granted, but a cable stay only normally works in tension, so I suspect that there might be scope for the floor to flex upwards, but not perhaps downwards. While I agree that allowing the floor to move closer to the floor might be beneficial, I can think of a couple of wierd ways in which allowing it to move upwards might help. For example, remember the bendy bib of the RB6 which allowed them to get away with running super low without wearing the plank, well what if Ferrari have found a similar trick?

Unless of course the Scuderia have developed elasticated steel cable. If so, I want some!
An upward flexing floor does't help in the way that the bib did because it's already 60mm above the ground and can't get any nearer than that - unless the stays allow it to flex downwards.

And all steel cables are elasticated if you can pull hard enough on them...
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segedunum
segedunum
0
Joined: 03 Apr 2007, 13:49

Re: Ferrari F150

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I must admit to being suprised by this car. I know it's not yet the full monty and that things will change a great deal in winter testing but I can't imagine this being anywhere near good enough, even just looking at the general profile of the car which can't change radically.

The first thing you notice is the front wing. That has to change, obviously.

It has a noticeably higher nose, probably to maximise the volume of air under and to the rear of the car and to get the maximum downforce possible from the smaller diffuser. While that sounds sensible, and we saw a similar thing in the 90s with regulation changes, but depending on the numbers and how much performace can be got out of a more efficient rear end I half suspect we will see a RB7 next week with a lower nose. With things like KERS the lower centre of gravity might just swing it. It might be too much to manage, but it wouldn't surprise me.

The sidepods are nowhere near as undercut as I would have expected them to be. Remember that with the smaller diffuser this year every component forward of it is more vital than ever in clawing back the downforce lost and gaining an advantage. If you can channel and increase more air to it then you do it, and you clear as much space as possible to accomplish it.....

....Which leads on to the push-rod suspension that seems to have been so much discussed. If a push-rod layout is the right way to go then I wonder why Ferrari have come up with a more elaborate configuration, apparently in an attempt to gain some of the advantages of a pull-rod layout and opening up clearer channels to the diffuser. It just sounds like hacking something to be like something else.

The reason why of course is because they didn't have time. Red Bull have had a pull-rod suspension for two years, and they would have designed a new gearbox and components in the rear of the car specifically so they could use that layout well in advance. If anything is the wrong size, shape or angle back there then you can't make it work. Unless Ferrari had planned to have a pull-rod rear suspension months in advance they simply can't do it.

I'm going to reserve judgement on how their season will go until I see what happens in winter testing, but unless they get a raft of components on that car in the tests or there is some secret hidden weapon somewhere I have a feeling this thing is going to tank. Sticking my neck out there, but the one goal Ferrari should have had in their sights was to go well above and beyond the RB6 development path. I can't see this doing it.

Agerasia
Agerasia
0
Joined: 14 Jan 2009, 14:08

Re: Ferrari F150

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I can't believe how small F1 diffusors are now :(
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mx_tifoso
mx_tifoso
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Joined: 30 Nov 2006, 05:01
Location: North America

Re: Ferrari F150

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raymondu999
54
Joined: 04 Feb 2010, 07:31

Re: Ferrari F150

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Didn't the F10 also launch with the F60's front wing, and no fin, then sprouted the fin, and a new cascade element in the first test? How much do we expect to see the front wing evolve from this launch-spec wing? Last year it didn't even evolve much, and that was over 9 months!!
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ringo
230
Joined: 29 Mar 2009, 10:57

Re: Ferrari F150

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segedunum wrote:I must admit to being suprised by this car. I know it's not yet the full monty and that things will change a great deal in winter testing but I can't imagine this being anywhere near good enough, even just looking at the general profile of the car which can't change radically.

The first thing you notice is the front wing. That has to change, obviously.

It has a noticeably higher nose, probably to maximise the volume of air under and to the rear of the car and to get the maximum downforce possible from the smaller diffuser. While that sounds sensible, and we saw a similar thing in the 90s with regulation changes, but depending on the numbers and how much performace can be got out of a more efficient rear end I half suspect we will see a RB7 next week with a lower nose. With things like KERS the lower centre of gravity might just swing it. It might be too much to manage, but it wouldn't surprise me.

The sidepods are nowhere near as undercut as I would have expected them to be. Remember that with the smaller diffuser this year every component forward of it is more vital than ever in clawing back the downforce lost and gaining an advantage. If you can channel and increase more air to it then you do it, and you clear as much space as possible to accomplish it.....

....Which leads on to the push-rod suspension that seems to have been so much discussed. If a push-rod layout is the right way to go then I wonder why Ferrari have come up with a more elaborate configuration, apparently in an attempt to gain some of the advantages of a pull-rod layout and opening up clearer channels to the diffuser. It just sounds like hacking something to be like something else.

The reason why of course is because they didn't have time. Red Bull have had a pull-rod suspension for two years, and they would have designed a new gearbox and components in the rear of the car specifically so they could use that layout well in advance. If anything is the wrong size, shape or angle back there then you can't make it work. Unless Ferrari had planned to have a pull-rod rear suspension months in advance they simply can't do it.

I'm going to reserve judgement on how their season will go until I see what happens in winter testing, but unless they get a raft of components on that car in the tests or there is some secret hidden weapon somewhere I have a feeling this thing is going to tank. Sticking my neck out there, but the one goal Ferrari should have had in their sights was to go well above and beyond the RB6 development path. I can't see this doing it.
The under cut helps but it is not necessary if the sidepods are as narrow as can be. One danger of too much undercut as well is air accelerating in the undercut, which lowers the pressure over the floor.
If you look carefully at the rb6 and rb5 they have no undercut, but a fillet; the complete opposite.

the F150 is actually a carbon copy of an rb5 midbody and roll hoop and engine cover split, with a Mclaren nose and intakes and wannabe pull rods.
Image
which is not bad. They know what they need to do to win. The RB6's DDD has too much influence on the width, and they probably realized that the 5 is the correct one to mimic, being much more extreme with the single diffuser.
I find the 5 to be more extreme than the 6 in the rear.
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volarchico
volarchico
0
Joined: 26 Feb 2010, 07:27

Re: Ferrari F150

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Bomber_Pilot wrote:I am a bit surprised by Alonso's sitting position though, as it seems quite high as noticed before. If you look at Francesc's pictures from page 16 and compare it, from last year's test, it does look like his helmet is quite high up, looking at the headrest and the airbox. Or is that just the angle playing tricks on me...
From the picture from the last year's F10 floor in this post, (viewtopic.php?p=208490#p208490) I wonder if the higher seating position is to allow a larger version of this channel? Would this be allowed this year?

csponton
csponton
7
Joined: 08 Sep 2009, 17:02

Re: Ferrari F150

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http://spontoncristiano.wordpress.com/2 ... rari-f150/

In terms of aerodynamics, as expected, the front of the chassis was completely revised by raising the nose and the cockpit. This has led to the creation of a highly carved frame and arched at the bottom to allow the greatest possible flow of air to the rear so that the speakers can be in the best way possible to generate more downforce load. The elevation of the driving position certainly penalizes the center of gravity of the car but it certainly offers greater visibility from the driver. It can be seen very well from these photos, taken yesterday at the Fiorano test, the driver's seat has been raised:
Image
Image
Image

Rosso Cavallino
Rosso Cavallino
0
Joined: 29 Jan 2011, 12:34

Re: Ferrari F150

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Has anyone taken a picture of the F150's steering wheel yet, or will we have to wait until the tests to see it? :-k

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Blackout
1566
Joined: 09 Feb 2010, 04:12

Re: Ferrari F150

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F10 (top) Vs F150: Focus on the fuel tanks, they don't have the same shape.
And the radiator's layout didn't changed much IMo

Image

Image

timbo
timbo
111
Joined: 22 Oct 2007, 10:14

Re: Ferrari F150

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I have an impression that radiators have actually changed.
IMO F150 have slightly shorter but wider radiators than F10.

Fuel tank have definitely changed.

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Blackout
1566
Joined: 09 Feb 2010, 04:12

Re: Ferrari F150

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I mean the layout is almost the same. ot a layout a la Mclaren :wink:

Florio
Florio
0
Joined: 28 Nov 2010, 22:03

Re: Ferrari F150

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I'm going to withhold my judgement until the results of the tests. Obviously, this 'wannabe pull rod' is interesting, but I am sceptical about their performance. Andrew Benson said something about their new design of dampers, or a different position? I've forgot what about it it was.

I can't help but think though that this looks like a slightly rushed design, especially as they plan for 'many significant innovations' for the Bahrain test, but then again maybe it's just to stop the other teams.

luca
luca
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Joined: 03 Feb 2010, 00:36

Re: Ferrari F150

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Here's a nice interactive comparison between F150 and F10 made by Marca: http://www.marca.com/2011/01/28/multime ... 22999.html
Just move the slider at the bottom of each picture ("planta", "alzado", etc.). :)

nacho
nacho
6
Joined: 04 Sep 2009, 08:38

Re: Ferrari F150

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The lower flap of the rear wing is really low and the movable much bigger than in the 2010 launch car, as one would expect if you wish to gain the most from the movable rear wing.

I expect that a lot of work will go into shaping the rear wing to gain maximum downforce and minimal drag when the flap is up.