Audi diesel racer

Please discuss here all your remarks and pose your questions about all racing series, except Formula One. Both technical and other questions about GP2, Touring cars, IRL, LMS, ...
DaveKillens
DaveKillens
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Joined: 20 Jan 2005, 04:02

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The 90 degree angle was chosen to lower the center of gravity. One important aspect of a racing diesel is the speed of combustion. Because diesel fuel burns at a slower rate than gasoline, the maximum RPM is 5,000. Additionally, Audi are using a VERY high pressure diesel injection system, much higher than usual. This is in order for the injectors to spray as fine a mist as possible, to aid combustion burn times. It also seems to make sense, since the diesel burn rate is a limiting factor in this racing car, to make the combustion chambers as small as practical. And of course, a V-12's combustion chambers are smaller than a V-10, and so on and so on.

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m3_lover
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The Bosch direct-injection system squirs minuscule jets of diesel fuel into the combustion chambers under pressure of about 2000 bar or 29000 psi. The pressure, feeding injection nozzles with multiple orifices, promotes more complete combustion, for more power and less soot
Simon: Nils? You can close in now. Nils?
John McClane: [on the guard's phone] Attention! Attention! Nils is dead! I repeat, Nils is dead, ----head. So's his pal, and those four guys from the East German All-Stars, your boys at the bank? They're gonna be a little late.
Simon: [on the phone] John... in the back of the truck you're driving, there's $13 billon dollars worth in gold bullion. I wonder would a deal be out of the question?
John McClane: [on the phone] Yeah, I got a deal for you. Come out from that rock you're hiding under, and I'll drive this truck up your ass.

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Spencifer_Murphy
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Joined: 11 Apr 2004, 23:29
Location: London, England, UK

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Can it run on chip fat?
LMAO!!!!!

Well I guess it could do...it is a deseil engine isnt it?

If my Dans Transit van engine runs on vegetable oil (which btw it does lmao) then so can a super technologically advanced 5.5litre V12 deseil with GTL technology & DTi for use in a LeMans race car engine!

I think :lol:
Silence is golden when you don't know a good answer.

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Scuderia_Russ
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Joined: 17 Jan 2004, 22:24
Location: Motorsport Valley, England.

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DaveKillens wrote:Audi are using a VERY high pressure diesel injection system, much higher than usual.
Not only that but C.I. engines by there very nature stress components and ancilaries more than their S.I. counterparts. This is why I was suprised to read in another post they are running with an all aluminium block. Does the poster mean ally alloy? I'd look myself but I'm on my way out.

Mikey_s
Mikey_s
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Joined: 21 Dec 2005, 11:06

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I know Diesel technology has been discussed a bunch of times in this forum, but just a couple of points to reiterate and some general thoughts;

Motor sport is a showcase for contructors to demonstrate their areas of expertise. So Audi (and Peugeot) would not be developing diesel engined vehicles if they didn't think they would sell more cars as a result... and therefore I think they must think they can win with these engines.

M3 lover; diesel fuel has a higher density than gasoline; therefore a full tank of diesel fuel will weigh more than a full tank of gasoline; However, engines work on mass of fuel (not volume), therefore this is a way to put more energy into the car.

Because the fuel is less volatile than gasoline it requires the extremely high injection pressures to atomise it so that combustion can occur more quickly and more completely in the time permitted.

The thermal efficiency (ability to use the heat energy produced by burning the fuel) of diesel engines it greater than for gasoline engines, so they are, in general, more efficient engines.

In general the torque produced is greater than for a gasoline engine; although it is an oversimplification, torque can be considered to be force x distance. Because the compression ratio in a diesel engine is typically 15 - 19:1, versus 10:1 for a gasoline engine, the the distance travelled by the piston per stroke is greater and thus the torque of the engine is higher. And therefore the ability of the engine to do work is greater, per rev, in a diesel engine.

But... they are unable to rev as high, and because power = torque x revs, even though the torque is higher the rev limit (imposed by piston speed and ability to burn the fuel) means that such engines tend to have lower maximum power than their gasoline equivalent.

The engines have to be built more strongly because the cylinder pressure is higher and the torque is higher. Therefore the diesel engine will always be more heavy than it's gasoline quivalent

Just to answer Toms point about chip fat; No doubt that the engine could run on it; the question is whether the fuel pump would work (for long!); the lubricity (ability to keep metal surfaces apart) would not be there. Furthermore, very likely the injectors would start to foul and the combustion efficiency would drop off. Finally, all the left over bits of fish batter and bits of chip would block the filter!! - furthermore, the smell would have all the fans making a bee-line for the fast food outlets, so all the spectators would leave the trackside... :lol:

As a side note; the Shell GTL (Gas to Liquid) technology is a clever bit of chemistry to make synthetic fuels with highly specific and constant properties from natural gas. They are building a couple of GTL plants in the middle and far east and have been running a couple of London Buses on the stuff for promotion purposes.
Mike

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Tom
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Joined: 13 Jan 2006, 00:24
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I doubt the fillters would appreciate chip fat.
Murphy's 9th Law of Technology:
Tell a man there are 300 million stars in the universe and he'll believe you. Tell him a bench has wet paint on it and he'll have to touch to be sure.

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Spencifer_Murphy
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LOL...

...works in a Transit van though! See all this techno wizardry and yet there's still something a basic Ford Transit can do better hehe :lol:
Silence is golden when you don't know a good answer.

RacingManiac
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Joined: 22 Nov 2004, 02:29

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Scuderia_Russ wrote:
DaveKillens wrote:Audi are using a VERY high pressure diesel injection system, much higher than usual.
Not only that but C.I. engines by there very nature stress components and ancilaries more than their S.I. counterparts. This is why I was suprised to read in another post they are running with an all aluminium block. Does the poster mean ally alloy? I'd look myself but I'm on my way out.
I pointed out the aluminum(no doubt its probably an alloy of it) as for most production diesel, inorder to cope with the higher pressure, iron blocks are usually used. Audi stressed that this is an engine designed from ground up as a racing engine, and the nature of lighter weight and everything applies to this even if it is a diesel. I think the reason why Audi is keen to point out that cylinder to cylinder's weight, R10's V12 is equal to that of the R8 V8, and the only reason why its heavier was because it was a V12, and not because it was a diesel....

zac510
zac510
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Joined: 24 Jan 2006, 12:58

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Nice post mikey. I think you have stumbled on something: LeMans fans fuel Audi to victory by eating frites. Porsche fans stick to sandwiches!

Dave, do you know what fuel pressure (roughly) they are running? The F1 cars are running 50bar or so (I'd have to check my notes).

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m3_lover
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I think the answer is here Zacky boy, not trying to be mean or anything
The Bosch direct-injection system squirs minuscule jets of diesel fuel into the combustion chambers under pressure of about 2000 bar or 29000 psi.
Simon: Nils? You can close in now. Nils?
John McClane: [on the guard's phone] Attention! Attention! Nils is dead! I repeat, Nils is dead, ----head. So's his pal, and those four guys from the East German All-Stars, your boys at the bank? They're gonna be a little late.
Simon: [on the phone] John... in the back of the truck you're driving, there's $13 billon dollars worth in gold bullion. I wonder would a deal be out of the question?
John McClane: [on the phone] Yeah, I got a deal for you. Come out from that rock you're hiding under, and I'll drive this truck up your ass.

zac510
zac510
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Joined: 24 Jan 2006, 12:58

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that's a lot of p-ess-is!

West
West
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Taurus Sport in 2004 (and I think 2005), correct me for the years, built a diesel prototype for Le Mans before Audi. They used a VW Touraeg diesel V10 for their car. Haven't heard from the team since then.
Bring back wider rear wings, V10s, and tobacco advertisements

RacingManiac
RacingManiac
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Joined: 22 Nov 2004, 02:29

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which is probably why Audi stress this is the first purpose built diesel racing engine....

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m3_lover
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I think the toureag diesel was used in the Dakar Rally and still is I think?
Simon: Nils? You can close in now. Nils?
John McClane: [on the guard's phone] Attention! Attention! Nils is dead! I repeat, Nils is dead, ----head. So's his pal, and those four guys from the East German All-Stars, your boys at the bank? They're gonna be a little late.
Simon: [on the phone] John... in the back of the truck you're driving, there's $13 billon dollars worth in gold bullion. I wonder would a deal be out of the question?
John McClane: [on the phone] Yeah, I got a deal for you. Come out from that rock you're hiding under, and I'll drive this truck up your ass.

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Scuderia_Russ
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Joined: 17 Jan 2004, 22:24
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You are right West, they were a year ahead of Audi and can stake the claim to getting there first.