Red Bull RB7 Renault

[nacho]

Well I think it is even tighter than last year, and they've even fitted a KERS there.

The difference with Williams is that at the moment it lacks the clean sweeping lines that RB7 has. Sure it is impressive, different but not as pretty as RB7.

[SoliRossi]

Testing without the fin:



Look at the tightness of the back.

That is definatly different from last year, granted it has a higher CoG as you can see there is more vertical mass but look at the clearance from the inside of the rear wheel to the outside of the gearbox (well the carbon shrink wrap around it), then look at the clear path leading to it, the volume of air that can pass through there is huge. Last years rear was very tight but it was lower and wider.

In relation to the exhaust question, my uneducated guess would be the exit of the exhausts is where the metallic pipes end. Remember in 09 the Ferrari had exposed pipes and it contravened the regs so they had to enclose them in the bodywork. Id say as long as there are only two pipes that blow the gasses then the team could design tunnels or tubes in the floor however they like to route that gas where they please.

Another way to think of it, there are 4 cylinders in each bank, so each bank has 4 pipes that converge to two then to one. Giving you 2 exits for your exhaust (regulation satisfied) then you dicide to but the pipes up to several tunnels or venes and direct that gas, if your smart enough to have a passive switch depending on rpm and pressure that dictates how the flow works.... sounds like something that Newey would come up with.

Going over to look at the williams tail now.

[Just_a_fan]

It's quite funny when people pick on one element of a car design and say "this is so much better than the others". The "rubbish" design will have been designed for a reason. The airflow coming off the front wing etc. defines how the rest of the car must be designed. A fat arse might actually be the right thing to have if, in combination with your killer front wing, it gives lots of lovely efficient downforce.

The RB7 is obviously beautifully packaged to get it that tight, but that doesn't mean it's automatically the right solution for everyone.

[Goran2812]

It's quite funny when people pick on one element of a car design and say "this is so much better than the others". The "rubbish" design will have been designed for a reason. The airflow coming off the front wing etc. defines how the rest of the car must be designed. A fat arse might actually be the right thing to have if, in combination with your killer front wing, it gives lots of lovely efficient downforce.

The RB7 is obviously beautifully packaged to get it that tight, but that doesn't mean it's automatically the right solution for everyone.

=D> =D> =D>

[Intego]

Testing without the fin:



Look at the tightness of the back.

What's that? They channel air around the sidepods with ending in a tunnel?
I can't see where exactly the exhaust is in this RB version. Either it's at the front or it's in the usual position and the gas is strengthened by airflow and then leads in the small open duct into the diffusor. Could this be Formular None's desired switch?

[ajdavison2]

I know that the rear of the RB is very tight, but is everyone forgetting the rear of the williams which seemingly doesnt have a gearbox at all

[Mandrake]

The difference between the Redbull and the Williams is how early the Sidepods tighten up to improve airflow to the rear. The Williams for sure has even less bodywork in the rear, but it doesn't look as clean as the RedBull does.

[Mandrake]

It's quite funny when people pick on one element of a car design and say "this is so much better than the others". The "rubbish" design will have been designed for a reason. The airflow coming off the front wing etc. defines how the rest of the car must be designed. A fat arse might actually be the right thing to have if, in combination with your killer front wing, it gives lots of lovely efficient downforce.

The RB7 is obviously beautifully packaged to get it that tight, but that doesn't mean it's automatically the right solution for everyone.

Nonononono that's impossible, the RedBull was the best car last year so their solution is the only one to go for [/irony off]

But what else was making the Redbull so good last year? Flexing wings? - Ferrari had them. Flexing floor? - I don't think that was all the answer. EBD? - Others had it towards the end as well. The tight rear end with the sleek sidepods? - The only striking difference and last year and possibly one of the secrets of redbull's DF levels

I think Ferrari went into the right direction in trying to package the ass as tight as possible.

[Just_a_fan]

No, what made the RB6 good last year was that whole car worked together better than the others. It wasn't just the sleek arse, or just the pull rod rear or just the flexi wing or just...you get my point.

The car is a package. It works as a whole and you can't just slap some obvious bit from one car on to another and expect it to work the same. Hell, even if you copied the external form of RB6 in its entirety it still wouldn't work the same. There are little bits here and there that help make the big bits work together properly.

Who remembers how difficult the RB6 seemed to be when following other cars? I bet that's because it's front wing was optimised to work the airflow in a certain way and the airflow coming off it was "designed" to interact with the rear of the car in a certain way. Stick the wing in the wake of another car and, wow, the thing suddenly didn't work as well. Strangely, the McLaren seemed pretty good running behind other cars. They may not have had the ultimate free air design but it seemed to be a decent compromise between free air and traffic running.

These cars are a bucket full of compromises - the key is to get the right combination of compromises...

[timbo]

Ferrari's different push-rod layout does seem to be holding its own with the space they've freed up but the push-rod is still a major obstruction no matter what angle they have it at and they'll never be able to channel the air inwards as Red Bull are doing with a push-rod. They're also going to lose some control and adjustment of the suspension with the push-rod at that angle. It's neat, I'll give Ferrari that, but I can't see it being effective.

Oh yeah, like the pull-rod angle of the RedBull is any different.
They also move the rocker way forward and it doesn't make it any better kinematics-wise than the pull-rod of Ferrari.

Push-rod allows Ferrari and Sauber use central section of diffuser better, RedBull apparently work diffuser heavier on the outside.

[segedunum]

Look at where RB are channeling their air inwards. With the push-rod where it is Ferrari won't be able to do anything in that area.

[Lurk]

It's not just about bodywork. Williams gearbox is just awesome.

As you, I have some doubt about Williams rear. It seems too abrupt. But imagine RB7 sidepods with a Williams gearbox.


edit : I precise that my first sentence was about the "impressiveness" (not sure it's the right word), not the effectiveness. Of course aero is about bodywork.

[Blackout]

The difference between the Redbull and the Williams is how early the Sidepods tighten up to improve airflow to the rear. The Williams for sure has even less bodywork in the rear, but it doesn't look as clean as the RedBull does.

Exactly. The williams bodywork has nothing impressive... but the gear box size and the area around are impressive...

[Intego]

What's that? They channel air around the sidepods with ending in a tunnel?
I can't see where exactly the exhaust is in this RB version. Either it's at the front or it's in the usual position and the gas is strengthened by airflow and then leads in the small open duct into the diffusor. Could this be Formular None's desired switch?

Sorry, I have to repost this, because I think there's going on something unusual. There seems to be a duct for the air stream around the lower sidepods (marked green). Maybe RBR really has an r-duct (beneath the "R" of "Red Bull", marked red) to change the exhaust gasses flow – maybe from the outer diffusor area to the inner one/starter hole ...

[ringo]

The difference between the Redbull and the Williams is how early the Sidepods tighten up to improve airflow to the rear. The Williams for sure has even less bodywork in the rear, but it doesn't look as clean as the RedBull does.

Exactly. The williams bodywork has nothing impressive... but the gear box size and the area around are impressive...

It's nothing that they can't fix though.
That's what i like about 2011, there is not one team that is safe from being copied.
Just cars with unique features on the tub, but other than that, sidepod, exhuasts ect are all open to copying once your pats are small enough to tighten up.