Mercedes GP W02

A place to discuss the characteristics of the cars in Formula One, both current as well as historical. Laptimes, driver worshipping and team chatter do not belong here.
NewtonMeter
NewtonMeter
5
Joined: 24 Jun 2010, 21:48
Location: Pretoria, South Africa

Re: Mercedes GP W02

Post

Wow, ok, that was a shock. I left my computer yesterday afternoon and things were looking pretty ok. And this is what I find when I come back? Ok, ok. A positive thing is that the car did many laps today. I'm glad about that. The times themselves wouldn't really have bothered me if it weren't for this:
We're not right at the sharp end but there's a long way to go to the first race.
-Ross Brawn

http://news.bbc.co.uk/sport2/hi/motorsp ... 386502.stm
The best would be up front easily, and beating everybody straightaway. But from where we are coming, you cannot expect that
-Michael Schumacher

http://www.autosport.com/news/report.php/id/89274

It sounds just a little too much like last year and doesn't really inspire confidence. It almost sounds like a polite way to say "we're not as fast as we were hoping to be". I just hope they know what they're doing... :?
Nothing is foolproof to a sufficiently talented fool...

User avatar
tarzoon
0
Joined: 17 May 2006, 19:53
Location: White and blue football club

Re: Mercedes GP W02

Post

Last year they finished the first test session in Valencia 1 second adrift the Ferraris. This year they are over 1 second slower than Kubica. Brawn and Schumi's comments don't help their cause, either.

They have parts coming up during next sessions, and the car is far from finished. Still, all the competitors are doing exactly the same thing and they have over one second lead.

Too early to jump into conclusions, but smart money isn't looking at them, at the moment. Anyway, I'm really looking forward to them winning at least one or two races this season

BTW, do they really need those bulgy sidepods? Compared to competitors, they're huge! Even those with pushrods have cleaner looks.

User avatar
JohnsonsEvilTwin
0
Joined: 29 Jan 2010, 11:51
Location: SU 419113

Re: Mercedes GP W02

Post

tarzoon wrote: Still, all the competitors are doing exactly the same thing and they have over one second lead.
Not even Brawn knows what they are doing. He said at the moment everything is going to plan, Mercedes were not looking at speed for this test. KERS evaluation and adjustable rear wing as well as suspension tweaking were all priorities.

Having studied their times and all the press releases, You can see the first 2 days were pretty troublsome for Merc. Integrating KERS was the main issue, as well as a Hydraulic and fuel problem for the W02 in those sessions.
Getting a time with those things going on is not really possible, nor will you learn much flying round doing a 1:13.1 but not sorting your cars KERS or learning to use the ARW.
The final day saw Mercedes do longer stints, with the team focusing on getting mileage on the car. The major plus point for Mercedes was the consistency shown from the car during these phases.

And there is a final point not to read too much into the times. Mercedes/Brawn/Honda have had an inherent problem understanding tyres. There was definatly a back to back comparsion going on with the W01 in certain areas with relation to this. The mistakes of the W01 need to be eradicated and to this end, I think Mercedes have come away satisifed.

Brawn has spoke of more updates/changes to be added to the car before it is deemed fully race worthy. All the press releases thus far contrast very differently from the ones of the W01, the team KNOWS where it is going with the W02.

Still far too early to say, and looking at Force India's 2010 car banging in a 1:13.2 we can safely say Schumacher was running around Ricardo Tormo with a sizeable amount of fuel aboard. Roll on the final 2 tests, because that will be more indicative of car performance for everyone. The next test in Jerez will probably be similar to that of this week....glorified shakedowns basically.
More could have been done.
David Purley

jav
jav
0
Joined: 04 Feb 2011, 16:34

Re: Mercedes GP W02

Post

1st post - be gentle.

I must say that to this point, I find Mercedes effort disappointing. With the early start on the car, I expected a McLaren/Renault style effort. A car with rather bold attempts at innovation- not what appears to be mostly immitation. Not that either car will prove faster than W02 in final form. But, at this point, it certainly seems we brought a knife to a gun fight.

Mclaren's car looks to represent an aggresive design approach, and the teams posture is one of "Despite what you CAN see- there's much more you can't see". Contrast that to how Merc's handling this launch. Conservative, uninspiring, certainly not setting the bar very high given that they gave up very early in '10 to focus on this??

Maybe they're playing it close to the vest but everything from the car to the rederick at this point suggests finishing 4th in the constructors championship may be optomistic considering what the competition have been able to show with seemingly less development time.

User avatar
Ferraripilot
21
Joined: 28 Jan 2011, 16:36
Location: Atlanta

Re: Mercedes GP W02

Post

I have to disagree. MB took a huge step from W01. W02 actually looks like a contender compared to Ferrari which is sort of a massage of last year's car. Ferrari did not require the same bump which MB required, but compared to Mclaren's completely revamped car it looks bad. I hope for Mclaren's sake their car isn't burdened by so much weight being placed at the outside of the center of the cars horizontal plane.

User avatar
tarzoon
0
Joined: 17 May 2006, 19:53
Location: White and blue football club

Re: Mercedes GP W02

Post

JohnsonsEvilTwin wrote: Brawn has spoke of more updates/changes to be added to the car before it is deemed fully race worthy. All the press releases thus far contrast very differently from the ones of the W01, the team KNOWS where it is going with the W02.
let's hope so! And I believe Brawn knows what he's doing and where he's going. Unless the car doesn't go as well as they make it sound like.

in http://news.bbc.co.uk/sport2/hi/motorsp ... 386502.stm
"I know what's in the pipeline," he said, "so I can do the calculations of what we are going to be able to do at the first race.
Still, 1 second adrift even if playing around and getting miles is quite a significant gap. Anyway, Last year's first test went great for Ferrari but their early season didn't really show it.

User avatar
Ferraripilot
21
Joined: 28 Jan 2011, 16:36
Location: Atlanta

Re: Mercedes GP W02

Post

2010 testing, Red Bull ran zero laps utilizing the performance they were capable of during testing. It's all part of the show folks. Not saying MB will blow the field away, but it would not at all surprise me if several teams were running the motors at 80% capacity or something.

User avatar
BorisTheBlade
32
Joined: 21 Nov 2008, 11:15

Re: Mercedes GP W02

Post

Not jumping to any conclusions but...

It's the same procedure as every year. In 2010 everyone waited for their "final" diffusor and front-wing. What happened? Everyone knows it. We already know the difference between what we think is a "totally changed car" at the first race and what the designers think.

I wouldn't say that the car looks much more promising than last year. But I also don't know what could have been without their "fundamental flaw" and their bad development rate. I mean, at the beginning they weren't too far off either.

User avatar
JohnsonsEvilTwin
0
Joined: 29 Jan 2010, 11:51
Location: SU 419113

Re: Mercedes GP W02

Post

Boris its not the same.

From the first test in 2010 we heard Mercedes had problems. Actual problems with the W01.

The front end wasnt biting, so how would extra diffuser downforce help?
Equally the front wing wasnt helping, and extra downforce on the front end exacerbated the problem.
That is why before any upgrade was launched we saw Mercedes change the wheelbase(a bigger task than mere wing or diffuser changes) before adding the upgrades.

Who knows what fuel is on board when the best times were done? No one and not even Brawn. If it turns out to be a pig, then such is life.
But looking at the Mercedes you can clearly tell there is more to come. Look at the fences by the sidepods, they werent even fully attached.
As Brawn says they have a few things coming, I will reserve judgement until the final test.
More could have been done.
David Purley

vealio
vealio
0
Joined: 20 Apr 2010, 00:25

Re: Mercedes GP W02

Post

My source close to Stuttgart (not so close to Brackley tbh) told me the figures of the wind tunnel were 100% correct and the team is happy.

User avatar
Ferraripilot
21
Joined: 28 Jan 2011, 16:36
Location: Atlanta

Re: Mercedes GP W02

Post

JohnsonsEvilTwin wrote:Boris its not the same.

From the first test in 2010 we heard Mercedes had problems. Actual problems with the W01.

The front end wasnt biting, so how would extra diffuser downforce help?
Equally the front wing wasnt helping, and extra downforce on the front end exacerbated the problem.
That is why before any upgrade was launched we saw Mercedes change the wheelbase(a bigger task than mere wing or diffuser changes) before adding the upgrades.

Who knows what fuel is on board when the best times were done? No one and not even Brawn. If it turns out to be a pig, then such is life.
But looking at the Mercedes you can clearly tell there is more to come. Look at the fences by the sidepods, they werent even fully attached.
As Brawn says they have a few things coming, I will reserve judgement until the final test.



yup, I agree completely regarding W01. Both drivers had balance issues with the car from the start. Both are stating they are completley comfortable with W02 from the get go. W02 is not nearly as done as any of the competitor cars. The barge boards are 100% proof positive of this. Those boards look like something they had to slap on the car for testing so they could now how to formulate the correct units after testing. Why make 'final' units when you are just not sure how the flow might be under the sidepods.

bosanac1
bosanac1
3
Joined: 25 Jan 2007, 01:08

Re: Mercedes GP W02

Post

once again in AMUS

they are saying that Schumacher doesn't like the front tires

either its BS by German media or PZero have weak fronts or W02 is lacking again.

luca
luca
0
Joined: 03 Feb 2010, 00:36

Re: Mercedes GP W02

Post

bosanac1 wrote:once again in AMUS

they are saying that Schumacher doesn't like the front tires

either its BS by German media or PZero have weak fronts or W02 is lacking again.
Well, that's a very possible scenario, given this: viewtopic.php?p=221951#p221951

User avatar
siskue2005
70
Joined: 11 May 2007, 21:50

Re: Mercedes GP W02

Post

bosanac1 wrote:once again in AMUS

they are saying that Schumacher doesn't like the front tires

either its BS by German media or PZero have weak fronts or W02 is lacking again.
oh common they didnt say that about the front tyres!!

schumacher was talking about the tyre degradation
its a mis quote, as now people will interpret it as last year's tyre problem...when in reality he was just saying the tyre degradation is bad and hope it will be changed....exactly like all the other dirvers were saying!

User avatar
Ferraripilot
21
Joined: 28 Jan 2011, 16:36
Location: Atlanta

Re: Mercedes GP W02

Post

siskue2005 wrote:
bosanac1 wrote:once again in AMUS

they are saying that Schumacher doesn't like the front tires

either its BS by German media or PZero have weak fronts or W02 is lacking again.
oh common they didnt say that about the front tyres!!

schumacher was talking about the tyre degradation
its a mis quote, as now people will interpret it as last year's tyre problem...when in reality he was just saying the tyre degradation is bad and hope it will be changed....exactly like all the other dirvers were saying!



thank you very much as I about to post this. Schumacher is saying the exact same thing many many others driver are stating, which is that the Pirelli's have a degradation issue. Hammy put it best, "the fronts fall off quick"