McLaren MP4-26 Mercedes

[ringo]

To blow under the beam wing or to blow the top of the diffuser?
That is the question.

Which one is worth more.

[segedunum]

Still think that diffuser looks rather basic. I would imagine there should be a fair bit of development coming on it. You would hope.

Sidepods? Hmmmm. Having thought about them a bit more I don't like things that are uneven, especially where they are coming into contact with large amounts of resistance. I'd like to see how these things affect the stability of the car in yaw.

McLaren have come up with this layout because they want to get as much clear air to the rear of the car as possible, but I question just how much because they're pretty much relying completely on the shallow parts of the sidepod to get air to the rear. They're not going to get a great deal of air around the sidepods the way they are in the way that other teams can.

[ell66]

Still think that diffuser looks rather basic. I would imagine there should be a fair bit of development coming on it. You would hope.

Sidepods? Hmmmm. Having thought about them a bit more I don't like things that are uneven, especially where they are coming into contact with large amounts of resistance. I'd like to see how these things affect the stability of the car in yaw.

McLaren have come up with this layout because they want to get as much clear air to the rear of the car as possible, but I question just how much because they're pretty much relying completely on the shallow parts of the sidepod to get air to the rear. They're not going to get a great deal of air around the sidepods the way they are in the way that other teams can.

no offense, but "having thoughts" youve done nothing but doubt the concept from day one.

iv heard rumours of a completly new front wing, i dont expect to see that till at least barcelona, obviously things like the floor will evolve significantly. and dont forget we were told that there were many things that we hadnt yet seen or noticed on the car.

[segedunum]

I'm allowed to 'doubt' the 'concept'. That's my prerogative. With respect, what I was looking for was something more substantial in response to those doubts other than "Boo hoo, you're being so negative".

We always get told there are things we haven't seen on the car and that there's lots more to come etc. etc. It doesn't really tell us much.

[Just_a_fan]

With respect, what I was looking for was something more substantial in response to those doubts other than "Boo hoo, you're being so negative".

With respect, your position (in a number of other car threads) seems to be to compare a car with the current Red Bull and declare it wanting in comparison.

Now, that's a fair gamble at present because the Red Bull is the car to beat (being a development of the current title holder), but it's not a dead cert.

Once we get to the first race and see how the things run in non-testing circumstances everything you (or anyone else) says is just conjecture.

[Twaddle]

I'm allowed to 'doubt' the 'concept'. That's my prerogative. With respect, what I was looking for was something more substantial in response to those doubts other than "Boo hoo, you're being so negative".

We always get told there are things we haven't seen on the car and that there's lots more to come etc. etc. It doesn't really tell us much.

That's fair enough, but maybe if your posts were a little more specific about the reason's for your doubts people could focus their responses more.

Some examples of where you could do this:

Still think that diffuser looks rather basic

What do you mean by 'basic'? Is it something particular about the general shape, the shaping and position of the fins? If so, why do you think this is bad?

I don't like things that are uneven, especially where they are coming into contact with large amounts of resistance

Uneven in what way? I wouldn't describe them that way myself, for example, so I'm struggling to understand what you mean. Also what is responsible for 'large amounts of resistance'? Do you mean free stream air? What is it about the way that they are coming into contact with this resistance that you're expecting to make them worse than other designs?

I'd like to see how these things affect the stability of the car in yaw.

I'm sure we all would, for all the cars. What makes this of specific interest in this case, and do you have any rough ideas for how they might affect stability that we could discuss?

It might seem like you're having to spell out the obvious, but what's obvious to you may not be to somebody else. They may even look at the same thing and come up with a completely opposing point of view. If you don't go into more detail, people who don't naturally see things the same way are either going to be confused or just write you off as a troll posting negative generalisations that can't be addressed directly precisely because of their lack of detail.

[Poleman]

I'm allowed to 'doubt' the 'concept'. That's my prerogative. With respect, what I was looking for was something more substantial in response to those doubts other than "Boo hoo, you're being so negative".

We always get told there are things we haven't seen on the car and that there's lots more to come etc. etc. It doesn't really tell us much.

That's fair enough, but maybe if your posts were a little more specific about the reason's for your doubts people could focus their responses more.

Some examples of where you could do this:

Still think that diffuser looks rather basic

What do you mean by 'basic'? Is it something particular about the general shape, the shaping and position of the fins? If so, why do you think this is bad?

I don't like things that are uneven, especially where they are coming into contact with large amounts of resistance

Uneven in what way? I wouldn't describe them that way myself, for example, so I'm struggling to understand what you mean. Also what is responsible for 'large amounts of resistance'? Do you mean free stream air? What is it about the way that they are coming into contact with this resistance that you're expecting to make them worse than other designs?

I'd like to see how these things affect the stability of the car in yaw.

I'm sure we all would, for all the cars. What makes this of specific interest in this case, and do you have any rough ideas for how they might affect stability that we could discuss?

It might seem like you're having to spell out the obvious, but what's obvious to you may not be to somebody else. They may even look at the same thing and come up with a completely opposing point of view. If you don't go into more detail, people who don't naturally see things the same way are either going to be confused or just write you off as a troll posting negative generalisations that can't be addressed directly precisely because of their lack of detail.

Excellent post =D>

On topic,just remember how much the MP4-25 evolved last year from the first test since Bahrain...What we see in the 26 so far is primitive i believe.Lets wait and see what (if any) innovations are more to come which in every aspect is great to have in F1.

To some people here are stating that some thoughts from posters are completely bullcrap:Speculation is a good thing to have...Its food for thought and using your brain isnt that bad isnt it?Since McLaren gave us a car that we can speculate over again this year then i guess its more than fine.Personally i enjoy reading all the posts in this thread and all the crazy ideas and suggestions.Thats what it keeps the flow going,who wants a dead thread in a forum anyways?

Regards.

[NoDivergence]

Shouldn't have any problems with yaw. The high outter sidepod body or the nose prevents most of the wind from interfering directly with the flow in the u channel (isolating it). It'll most likely act directly upon the engine cover fin. If anything, yaw would further the design concept of the u channel by increasing air mass flow rate into this particular section. The outer sidepod body seals the flow in the channel and any air that passes over will act as like what happens for a traditional sidepod. There will be little detached flow. However, I'm curious if McLaren has factored into their design's effectiveness if there are conditions such that a strong vortice is introduced

[mclaren113]

I noticed in tow pictures of Jenson Button that the exhaust was in a pic and disappeared in the other. It's right above the diffuser.

See this pics please:
http://www.f1fanatic.co.uk/wp-content/u ... 011_21.jpg

http://www.f1fanatic.co.uk/wp-content/u ... 011_31.jpg

[Biscuit]

Your second picture looks like a sideways exiting exhaust, no? I've added a shot posted earlier which shows what it looked like before when running a different exhaust. Definately a curvature that didn't exist before.

Sidebar at yellow arrow... haven't seen such aggressive aero pieces on the rear brake ducts before have we? The lower interior ramp they've had for a while but that upper piece appears new and pretty large.

[myurr]

Still think that diffuser looks rather basic. I would imagine there should be a fair bit of development coming on it. You would hope.

By primitive I presume you're referring to there being one fence instead of two. But if you look at the picture with the flow vis paint on it you can see what I believe is a different concept for the diffuser (hopefully someone can correct me if I'm wrong).



The reason they have only one fence is that they appear to be using the larger central section to roll the air into a vortex. In the flow vis paint you can see the air move up the side of the diffuser an across the roof. My limited understanding is that the other diffuser designs are more about simply expanding the volume, with the more advanced designs also turning the air significantly outwards (presumably to interact with the wake from the rear wheels).

So not primitive, just different in concept.

[zgred]

[Morteza]

Sorry for being off topic
What is the function of this measuring equipment in the pictures above?

[ajdavison2]

I think it's used to measure the wake from the tires?

[ell66]

I'm allowed to 'doubt' the 'concept'. That's my prerogative. With respect, what I was looking for was something more substantial in response to those doubts other than "Boo hoo, you're being so negative".

We always get told there are things we haven't seen on the car and that there's lots more to come etc. etc. It doesn't really tell us much.

... You implied that after tinking about it and giving it a second thought you "doubted" it. when in fact youve talked down on it since the launch.
you pop up in EVERY other car thread talking crap and just piping in with general comments with no actual reasoning.

...