Mercedes GP W02

[Med4224]

If I had been an MGP-fan, which I'm not, one of my worries would be what seems to be a lack of attention to detail.

If you behold the rear above and look at similar images from RBR and Ferrari, it looks almost cheap and patched together. The simple cut-out holes in the bodywork for the suspension-arms, which don't really match, is just one xample of something you would never see on Newey's cars. God is in the details.

As for the xhaust arrangement, I don't really know what to say, looks like a last minute job to me?

ahh yea.. which is consistent with what Brawn said that is merely a plain car for testing

not that it is a +ve thing, but that is the case

which might be encouraging for the race-ready car

[amouzouris]

I think that u guys should give em a break...Brawn is a VERY clever man... he is no amateur.. he just knows what he is doing...and as for the fact that the W02 looks simple..i'd like to remind u that RB was simple last year but it was miles faster than anyone else..

[siskue2005]

i think(atleast i hope) that Brawn has something to hide in their car, some innovations which could be copied easily or banned easily.... so they are trying to hold their cards until the final test to run it.
Look at F-duct, DDD, FEE all got copied or banned or protested very fast
They could have somehing up their sleeves now , which they willl show at Bahrain
I hpe its fast and good

[Ferraripilot]

If I had been an MGP-fan, which I'm not, one of my worries would be what seems to be a lack of attention to detail.

If you behold the rear above and look at similar images from RBR and Ferrari, it looks almost cheap and patched together. The simple cut-out holes in the bodywork for the suspension-arms, which don't really match, is just one xample of something you would never see on Newey's cars. God is in the details.

As for the xhaust arrangement, I don't really know what to say, looks like a last minute job to me?

I can't argue a lot there regarding their area just forward of the rear axle, but I can say their front end treatment (exception being current barge boards and wing) is far better looking (if that matters) than anyone else at the moment. Their attention to detail is indeed much greater than others in that matter.

As for Ferrari; their latest car IMO, is a lazy translation of 2010's car and they haven't much upward mobility in their upgrades by the look of their current late 2010 season arrangements. RB7 is indeed the same, but hardly a lazy iteration of RB6. I'm sure W02 has plenty of 'stuff' that has yet to break cover, but I hope it's the right 'stuff'. I won't be quick to write them off at Bahrain if they don't have much changed, but if 3-4 races down they are not making good on what they have lead fans to believe...... well, they are only hurting themselves.

[segedunum]

Frankly, I would hope to see a different car come Friday at Barcelona because if they don't test something better very soon they're not going to magically turn up to Bahrain with it. Compare the front wing of this car to Renault's. Sheesh. They're not going to bring something in like that in three or four weeks.

It's a dangerous thing to believe that there will be some unseen unknown changes just around the corner at Bahrain. Then that turns into Australia and then the European season..... It's like Donald Rumsfeld's unknown unknowns. The simplest explanation is that if you continually don't see it then it doesn't exist.

You don't bring nothing to a test and then magically bring something to a race in three or four weeks that you haven't tested..... That's fairly non-sensical.

[Med4224]

Frankly, I would hope to see a different car come Friday at Barcelona because if they don't test something better very soon they're not going to magically turn up to Bahrain with it. Compare the front wing of this car to Renault's. Sheesh. They're not going to bring something in like that in three or four weeks.

It's a dangerous thing to believe that there will be some unseen unknown changes just around the corner at Bahrain. Then that turns into Australia and then the European season..... It's like Donald Rumsfeld's unknown unknowns. The simplest explanation is that if you continually don't see it then it doesn't exist.

You don't bring nothing to a test and then magically bring something to a race in three or four weeks that you haven't tested..... That's fairly non-sensical.

that's not what they said, they said they have the developments ready but they chose to test with this car. For what reason, i don't know.
They're not talking about miraculous transformation. They have already designed these parts, just need to implement them. It is dangerous.
But it may pay off. It is still a Brawn team.

So no, the you don't see it concept doesn't apply here.

[xpensive]

Without making any other comparisons whatsoever, I share Adrian Newey's passion for attention to detail in every area.

I have learned, more often than not anyway, that you can judge the engineering standard of an office by xactly the above.

Sadly enough, I just don't see that quality in the W02.

[marcush.]

the level of detail might not be the best indicator for competitiveness .
Ferraris work always looks a bit more on the coarse side when Mclaren seems to have people available to make things look just beutifully detailed.In terms of laptime..well.
The fact that Front suspension detail on the W02 is very much on a different planet compared to the floor and sidepods may indicate just where to expect them to change before Bahrain.

Mercedes to retain their short wheelbase concept after 2010 indicating they have proven fact that this was not the area they lacked ...why go to pullrod and not make the car longer ? they have chosen to take over from RB:
High platypus type nose
tub crossection
pullrod rearsuspension

but not :
front wing topology
Bulkhead arrangement(still raised cockpit bulkhead)
airbox philosophy
sidepod tapering
extreme forward angling of pullrod
acute driveshaft angles



I go with expensive in being disappointed with the level of detail hinting at some lack of passion and dedication or sheer lack of expertise or workforce.take your choice .But I am concerned.

[segedunum]

Splitting hairs really, and quite frankly, effectively a new car (minus the 'compromises' he mentions) is exactly the impression that Ross Brawn is giving with his comments. Why would you choose not to test anything that you're going to be using all season until Friday morning in Bahrain? It makes no sense to me at all. You have such limited testing time as it is.

Attention to detail is all, and the best people always have a bit of an OCD complex. They make sure things are flush, there are no jagged leading edges, they don't create any unnecessary or risky changes in airflow, things are symmetrical and lined up with each other...... You saw it with Colin Chapman, today with Adrian Newey and his group of people and I see it with Renault this season as well. With some projects you can probably get away with something average, but you're on the bleeding edge in this sport.

[Med4224]

Splitting hairs really, and quite frankly, effectively a new car (minus the 'compromises' he mentions) is exactly the impression that Ross Brawn is giving with his comments. Why would you choose not to test anything that you're going to be using all season until Friday morning in Bahrain? It makes no sense to me at all. You have such limited testing time as it is.

Attention to detail is all, and the best people always have a bit of an OCD complex. They make sure things are flush, there are no jagged leading edges, they don't create any unnecessary or risky changes in airflow, things are symmetrical and lined up with each other...... You saw it with Colin Chapman, today with Adrian Newey and his group of people and I see it with Renault this season as well. With some projects you can probably get away with something average, but you're on the bleeding edge in this sport.

Aerodynamic packages don't need extensive testing, virtual testing does a good job nowadays, and they would just need a bit of tweaking in practice sessions, finding the best set-up, and that can be done easily in practice.

The only gamble is hidden issues which the team didn't anticipate.

I dono why they would wait, but I am sure they are more concerned with their car than we are, so they gotta have a good reason.

Actually I am glad Merc has hidden cards.

[myurr]

Splitting hairs really, and quite frankly, effectively a new car (minus the 'compromises' he mentions) is exactly the impression that Ross Brawn is giving with his comments. Why would you choose not to test anything that you're going to be using all season until Friday morning in Bahrain? It makes no sense to me at all. You have such limited testing time as it is.

I share everyones concern for Mercedes this season, but the most obvious reason for delaying the package is development time. As long as this interim car works as the models predict then the revised car should also work as well as the models predict, so they may be hoping that by spending additional time developing the car then it will bring the associated performance. Doesn't always work out like that though.

Attention to detail is all, and the best people always have a bit of an OCD complex.

I agree but only to a degree. People with that level of attention to detail also struggle to get projects out the door as they're forever tinkering. Sometimes good enough is good enough and you have to get a project out of the door in order to learn how it behaves in the real world.

They make sure things are flush, there are no jagged leading edges, they don't create any unnecessary or risky changes in airflow, things are symmetrical and lined up with each other...... You saw it with Colin Chapman, today with Adrian Newey and his group of people and I see it with Renault this season as well. With some projects you can probably get away with something average, but you're on the bleeding edge in this sport.

Again for the most part I agree, however we see all the teams making spot repairs and on the hoof changes. Look at Red Bull's current exhausts and they don't look that high quality, there's a bit of a tacked on feel to them. I'm sure the production parts will be better quality.

So I guess rough edges when fixing or changing something are okay for a while, but with the Merc it's wrong to have so many rough edges.

[timbo]

They make sure things are flush, there are no jagged leading edges, they don't create any unnecessary or risky changes in airflow, things are symmetrical and lined up with each other...... You saw it with Colin Chapman, today with Adrian Newey and his group of people and I see it with Renault this season as well. With some projects you can probably get away with something average, but you're on the bleeding edge in this sport.

Oh, yeah, legendary attention to detail of Colin Chapman. Who failed to use his own creation (ground effect) to full extent. And that story about inboard/outboard suspension.
And Newey also not always came out with all that great ideas. Remember rear suspension of FW16? Looked great, but driveability of that car... don't get me started on that.

And that piece in bold applied to a lot of pretty cars that never achieved anything significant as far as results go (Ferrari F92A, Prost AP04, McLaren MP4-18 etc).

[segedunum]

Those examples are few and far between and really borders on hair splitting to find faults........ The really successful cars have all tended to share those traits regardless. Kind of the point really in the context of Mercedes.

[JohnsonsEvilTwin]

Im remain unconcerned.

In the basic order of things, Mercedes are behind Red Bull Ferrari and Mclaren.
Detials or no, the W01 finished a 4th behind these guys.
The W02 was intended to be a seismic change from the W01 and it looks to be different.
Raised nose, KERS, Pull rod, conventional airbox.

The base target for any Mercedes in a racing series is to win. Its what Stuttgart expects. But this is F1, and look how Red Bull took 5 years to get to the top with Newey and a sackfull of cash.
I get the impression Mercedes are talking the talk, but are taking a step by step approach to walking the walk.

You can see from the scorch marks that the exhaust solution Mercedes currently have is not one that fits with the bodywork. Not even Lotus had such problems. So where does a team in the top 4 get such basic things wrong?
My theory is that the team arent looking for Performance, their media statments verify that.
We also have noises that the team will be looking at producing a very changed car for either the last test or for the first Grand Prix.

So we can look at this one of 2 ways, Optimistically or Pessimistically. No one of us or the Media can say for certain where Mercedes is with the W02 or where they are going.

But what has been done over the last 12 months will start to take effect,
The team is effectively stronger internally than it was 12 months ago. So by rights, with competent management(a Brawn byword) the team will progress.

The question is how much?

My money is on the team being 3rd 4th or 5th fastest given that Renault could well have a very good R31, And Mclaren could struggle initially with the MP4-26 with some complexities of its design. The Ferrari looks pretty decent although the potential for its design may be less than other front runners later on in the season.
RB7 looks to be taking off where the RB6 left us.

So the status quo remains.

To expect a team of 450 odd from Brackley to turn the tables on established Powerhouses like Ferrari and Red Bull in 12 months is slightly unrealistic. But that is the target Mercedes has set itself, right or wrong.

This season I expect to see progress, anything less than 4th place will be deemed failure for sure. Although, if it is an unexpectedly close season, 5th with a victory may even suffice. 2012 will be the acid test year, and all the rhetoric appears to suggest as much.
Mercedes appears to be investing heavily in CFD and also sim tech, these benefits we will start to see later on in the year(one hopes).

In the mean time we have to look at the W02 for what it is, an unfinished test mule designed specifically for testing KERS and tyres and possibly some minor set up work. I will again reiterate that any conclusion regards the final design/fit/finish of the car be reserved until Bahrain, where we can see what Brawn and his merry bandits have come up with for definite.

[tarzoon]

Schumacher on bbc

After three of the four days of running, Schumacher has set the fastest time in Jerez with a lap he recorded on the second day. He admitted it was on the gripper 'super-soft tyres' that many of the other teams had not run.