Red Bull RB7 Renault

[raymondu999]

A bit off topic, but Mark's "king" comment was directed at de la Rosa saying, "Was raining in Monza all day. Forgot how good I was in the wet." I've never seen or heard of any driver proclaim themselves as good... seems slightly overconfident don't you think? Or is he marketing himself through Twitter now?

[imightbewrong]

Please watch these on youtube for the full hd experience, NICE!
[youtube]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=56VDcq6j6SE[/youtube]
[youtube]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Xx04Wp0hy_Q[/youtube]

[Richard]

The black patch is a heat shield for where the exhausts turn down to run along the floor. It appears to be built into the sidepod, so they simply leave it place for all exhaust configurations.

Also, remember this is the team that ran with dummy exhausts in testing last year. Are those ducts on the floor real?

[segedunum]

Looking at that overhead shot it's clear to see where Ringo gets his fat fuel tank idea from. The slim rear is simply a result of the gearbox they've built.

Having such a large contained mass in the middle of the car with lateral force acting on it makes it imperative that they get the most out of the car where they're saving the space.

[segedunum]

Amusing to see some people have a go at Red Bull for changing the exhausts around on their car and their fit and finish.

It's not as if they're shooting in the dark here. They've got their exhausts in the ball park area that they want, and have already decided on, and are adjusting the specific variations on a theme that they have. It's not as if they're panicking trying to route exhausts in a completely different direction every three or four hours, like forwards, and then moving them to a more conventional position later to compare.

I'm sure they're having an intellectual discussion internally on Renault's interesting exhaust positioning but they're not going to panic into trying it because they'll just be wasting their time.

[timbo]

I'm sure they're having an intellectual discussion internally on Renault's interesting exhaust positioning but they're not going to panic into trying it because they'll just be wasting their time.

So.
A) you assume that certain team panics (you have no clue about that, or had you talked with some senior engineer within a team?)
B) you assume that such fast solution is ineffective. On that one you are clearly wrong – if FEE proves as effective as EBD was it's better to test and apply as soon as possible. Last year proved it.
There may be a lot of reason as to why Newey doesn't try it. Maybe he has more info. Or maybe the packaging of RedBull requires more changes to try FEE, and it's better to stick to their conventional testing program for the moment.

[volarchico]

Amusing to see some people have a go at Red Bull for changing the exhausts around on their car and their fit and finish.

I think you can realize this obviously stems from your comments on other cars.

It's not as if they're shooting in the dark here. ... It's not as if they're panicking trying to route exhausts in a completely different direction every three or four hours, like forwards, and then moving them to a more conventional position later to compare.

This indirectly implies that the other teams are "shooting in the dark". Odd how depending on the team you have a very different reaction to nearly the same thing.

I'm sure they're having an intellectual discussion internally on Renault's interesting exhaust positioning but they're not going to panic into trying it because they'll just be wasting their time.

I'd imagine they aren't the only ones with intellectual discussions going on.

Usually, I sit back and just laugh at your annoying posts, because once in awhile you do have something worthwhile and insightful to say, but it's getting old.

[Raptor22]

Soem great back and forward in this thread. This car certainly generates lots of opinions and discussion.

Regarding the Renault engine, there was an earlier post that suggested it was smaller than the other engines, I was under the impression that the engine sizes were stipulated by the regs. Ie all the same size.

The renault apparently uses less fuel and has better cooling properties, but is down on power.

It would seem that RBR, i trying tos ecure a Merc donk for 2 consecutive years felt that it was better to have that power and sacrifice the other options. As was pointed out earlier, part of the reason the Renault is better on fuel is its reduction in power.

But they have got the whole package to win championships as is, but as if they would not have shelved Renault for Merc and the Merc KERS. That KERS is superb.

Newey said the Renault engine has the best heat rejection in the field, a useful trait. The means it has superb thermal efficiency i.e. it takes the heat energy from the fuel and converts into temperature and pressure. It may be down on power but have better torque and a more useful power band. Absolute power is an advantage at only a few race tracks.
In 1994 the Ford Zetec in the back of the B194 was downon power but had superb torque and a very useful power band

[segedunum]

You'd better believe it. Whenever a team sees an idea on another car that they didn't think of you wouldn't believe the knee-jerking that goes on. All hell breaks loose.

This indirectly implies that the other teams are "shooting in the dark". Odd how depending on the team you have a very different reaction to nearly the same thing.

I don't know where people get this strange idea that it's 'all the same thing' when I've been at pains to point out exactly what the difference is. If you see a team coming to a test and putting components in at least three completely different places in the space of two or three days then you wonder what their initial idea was to start off with. If you see a team coming to a test with one idea and a component in one area, sticking with it and making adjustments then that's rather different, no? Whatever else you might think is pretty irrelevant, although I can see where you might be going with that red and Vodafone covered front wing as an avatar.

Mind you, that's why the best are out in front and everyone else won't, or can't, think that way. Based on teams that have thought through ideas that they've brought to tests and stuck with them then I can see the top three teams as Red Bull, Renault and Ferrari, probably in that order. I'm not so sure about Ferrari's push-rod suspension, but they believe they will get a certain advantage from using it and they're sticking with it.

We'll see what happens and then we can revisit this silly saga later and agree on who's been doing things right.

[segedunum]

[...]

[Just_a_fan]

If you see a team coming to a test and putting components in at least three completely different places in the space of two or three days then you wonder what their initial idea was to start off with. If you see a team coming to a test with one idea and a component in one area, sticking with it and making adjustments then that's rather different, no?

One team may have two or three ideas which the systems at the factory suggest might be beneficial in a similar way but which can't all be run on the car. They need to figure out which is the best idea in practice rather than theory.

The team that brings only one idea / component might only have one idea anyway. Or they might have decided that they are going to go down one route because, so far, it has worked.

The latter route works until someone suddenly comes up with a new idea and they suddenly fall away.

At some point, RBR will be left behind and will take two, three or more seasons to catch back up. That's the simple truth of F1. No one is immune to the fall from grace. The best teams don't fall too far, the others fall all the way.

[volarchico]

Mind you, that's why the best are out in front and everyone else won't, or can't, think that way. Based on teams that have thought through ideas that they've brought to tests and stuck with them then I can see the top three teams as Red Bull, Renault and Ferrari, probably in that order.

We'll see what happens and then we can revisit this silly saga later and agree on who's been doing things right.

Sounds good. You had the same doubts about McLaren's testing last year and even with their panic, flow-viz, and pitot-rakes, they managed to get 2nd place. We'll just have to see how it goes this year.

[Blackout]

The misterious openings that some of us have talked about:

HR image


Red arrow here:

Blue here:

[Lindz]

Blackout, it could be as simple as additional cooler outlets (gearbox cooler, for instance). Or it could be additional outlets for the cooling the radiators. Or it could be ducting fed from somewhere that blows over that central floor section that might be hard to feed clean air externally since there are so many suspension bits in that area.

Or, bear with me... the '2 exhaust exits' could be deemed where the exhaust PIPES end, while the gasses are diverted via ducting to feed the outer 5cm of the diffuser as well as blow the top/center of the floor/diffuser. You could maybe argue that these ducts are simply part of the rear floor design and the exhaust pipes terminate with only 2 openings, as per the regs.

Anyway, there are definitely small ducts and outlets there...

[Just_a_fan]

If there is any hint that it could be deemed a double diffuser it will be thrown out by the scutineers (or by the FIA after Ferrari / McLaren protest).