Mercedes GP W02

[Afterburner]

I said last year mercedes was in trouble with GP w01, this year i'm seeing the same story but i think they have a better chassis with a bigger margin for development. Right now it just doesn't seems to be a refined car, the nosecone doesn't seems to belong to the tub, the rear seems a little fat compared to other teams, they're having a very conservative aproach and seem that don't want to take a risk with anything.

[NewtonMeter]

I'm curios as to what's going on with mercedes. They've done very little running thus far.

One theory that I'm currently entertaining is that they're waiting for track conditions to stabilise. Then they're going to go out with the current (or vanilla pure spec as Ross Brawn so eloquently put it) spec car that we saw at the previous tests to get an idea about the baseline performance. And then they might systematically add a few bits and bobs.

Or....they're waiting for the track to stabilise and will then do some more tyre evaluations to improve the car's generous appetite for Pirellis.

Any takers on this?

[JohnsonsEvilTwin]

I'm curios as to what's going on with mercedes. They've done very little running thus far.

One theory that I'm currently entertaining is that they're waiting for track conditions to stabilise. Then they're going to go out with the current (or vanilla pure spec as Ross Brawn so eloquently put it) spec car that we saw at the previous tests to get an idea about the baseline performance. And then they might systematically add a few bits and bobs.

Or....they're waiting for the track to stabilise and will then do some more tyre evaluations to improve the car's generous appetite for Pirellis.

Any takers on this?

I can have a bite.

No is the simple answer. The team have indicated that they will not be doing any big upgrades until Bahrain's test venue(possibly rescheduled back to Barca in light of the situation in Bahrain). Also the focus of the first 3 tests has always been KERS integration, Tyre work and ARW tests. The team have so far been true t their word, so we will see if next week they turn up with these upgrades.

In between though, we have seen a couple of very minor additions. The slots in Rosbergs front wing(possible attempts at mimicking a 3 plane front wing) and also Mercedes tradition on nose strakes.
These are not really game changing mods, the front wing holds vast potential, but not in the guise it was on Rosbergs car.

With talk rife on the net that Mercedes have some new exhaust idea, and the fairly obvious sidepod modification, we can see the factory are working full pelt at delivering a finsihed article for the next test. Bob Bell's touch may even be visible(exhaust borrowing from Renaults idea possibly? ) and it would go a long way to explaing the rough unfinished W02, and Ross Brawns apparently unworried nature regards the car.

I still maintain we havent seen Mercedes cards just yet, and therefore any judgement be delayed till the last test. Then we will see wether Mercedes are in trouble, or moving in the right direction. Xpensive will be getting a tad nervy over our bet with todays announcement of Bell no doubt!

[marcush.]

judging from this pic it is a safe bet they cannot duplicate the Mclaren Sidepod approach :


so my guess really is they will have one extreme undercut /ducting below and tbh would make sense in the light of the short wheelbase .If they do not have to go for length to have a good flow to the beamwing /top of difusser area by lifting the whole sidepod...

[dren]

I can have a bite.

No is the simple answer. The team have indicated that they will not be doing any big upgrades until Bahrain's test venue(possibly rescheduled back to Barca in light of the situation in Bahrain). Also the focus of the first 3 tests has always been KERS integration, Tyre work and ARW tests. The team have so far been true t their word, so we will see if next week they turn up with these upgrades.

In between though, we have seen a couple of very minor additions. The slots in Rosbergs front wing(possible attempts at mimicking a 3 plane front wing) and also Mercedes tradition on nose strakes.
These are not really game changing mods, the front wing holds vast potential, but not in the guise it was on Rosbergs car.

With talk rife on the net that Mercedes have some new exhaust idea, and the fairly obvious sidepod modification, we can see the factory are working full pelt at delivering a finsihed article for the next test. Bob Bell's touch may even be visible(exhaust borrowing from Renaults idea possibly? ) and it would go a long way to explaing the rough unfinished W02, and Ross Brawns apparently unworried nature regards the car.

I still maintain we havent seen Mercedes cards just yet, and therefore any judgement be delayed till the last test. Then we will see wether Mercedes are in trouble, or moving in the right direction. Xpensive will be getting a tad nervy over our bet with todays announcement of Bell no doubt!

I wouldn't set expectations too high. There are upgrades in the pipeline, but this is just similar to last year. Expect some small changes and refinements. I am hoping for a substantial sidepod upgrade, but I don't think it'll materialize.

[FrukostScones]

same bad laptime pattern as the last tests:
Schueys last stint:

26 1:30.456
27 1:30.657 +0.201
28 1:31.326 +0.669
29 1:31.206 -0.12
30 1:31.526 +0.32
31 1:31.998 +0.472
32 1:32.517 +0.519
33 1:33.481 +0.964
34 1:33.516 +0.035
35 1:33.564 +0.048
36 1:33.685 +0.121
37 1:33.803 +0.118
38 1:34.814 +1.011

they are doomed! I hope I m wrong...

[raymondu999]

same bad laptime pattern as the last tests:
Schueys last stint:

26 1:30.456
27 1:30.657 +0.201
28 1:31.326 +0.669
29 1:31.206 -0.12
30 1:31.526 +0.32
31 1:31.998 +0.472
32 1:32.517 +0.519
33 1:33.481 +0.964
34 1:33.516 +0.035
35 1:33.564 +0.048
36 1:33.685 +0.121
37 1:33.803 +0.118
38 1:34.814 +1.011

they are doomed! I hope I m wrong...

Like I keep saying!! We need to plot similar stint lengths on a graph and work out the standard deviation of each. That way we'll get to see who's consistent (smaller Stddev) and who's less consistent (larger stddev)

[JohnsonsEvilTwin]

So you are expecting raised sidepods Marcush?

I think it would be fairly easy for them to reposition the radiators. They have problems with heating, indicators that whatever they have now is not ideally placed or a "compromise"...Brawns word of the month

Oh and Bob Bell is Chassis guru along with the Japanese fellow employed in November last year.

A statement said Bell's role "will primarily be based at the team's factory" with "overall responsibility for the technical operations of the chassis group".

Leads me to think this timeline is rather telling...

Oct 10.Bell leaves Renault
Nov 10.Mercedes appointment Oguchi as lead chassis engineer
Feb 11.Bell announced as leading chassis programme

These are inexorably linked IMO...or maybe im just barking mad.

[dren]

same bad laptime pattern as the last tests:
Schueys last stint:

26 1:30.456
27 1:30.657 +0.201
28 1:31.326 +0.669
29 1:31.206 -0.12
30 1:31.526 +0.32
31 1:31.998 +0.472
32 1:32.517 +0.519
33 1:33.481 +0.964
34 1:33.516 +0.035
35 1:33.564 +0.048
36 1:33.685 +0.121
37 1:33.803 +0.118
38 1:34.814 +1.011

they are doomed! I hope I m wrong...

Like I keep saying!! We need to plot similar stint lengths on a graph and work out the standard deviation of each. That way we'll get to see who's consistent (smaller Stddev) and who's less consistent (larger stddev)

Where can we get all of the laptimes? I can throw the data into Mintab and run some quality checks on it.

[FrukostScones]

Where can we get all of the laptimes? I can throw the data into Mintab and run some quality checks on it.

http://www.msfree.gr/includes/livelaps. ... SCHUMACHER[/b]

Times that I posted were the opening stint of a Schuey racesim, without ARW I assume!

Did not save older times, they are maybe somewhere... I saw that nice excel table on that russian? website...

[raymondu999]

Where can we get all of the laptimes? I can throw the data into Mintab and run some quality checks on it.

Last time user csponton had lap charts in his website: http://spontoncristiano.wordpress.com/ Do you mean minitab? Isn't that statistical software for 6 sigma? Let's continue this discussion in the testing thread. Mods, if you please?

[adrianjordan]

I've just remembered something. When Ross Brawn and Schumacher were at Ferrari they delayed the launch of the new car a few times until after the first few races to make sure they got as much developed on it prior to launch as they could.

Now granted this was in the days when they could just send the new car for a few thousand laps at Mugello to test it before racing it.

So, what if this is the same thinking that they are taking now with the W02? Only because they can't test in season they have put together the test "Mule" (as someone up thread has referred to it) to bed in the mechanical side of the car while they refine their aero package.

I realise this is what others are already suggesting, but I wanted to point out that it's not that far from Ross Brawn's previous strategy.

As for the sidepods - I was looking at a Minichamps model of a BGP001 in town today (it will be mine next week!!) and realised that the sidepods on that were way more developed than the ones we currently see on the W02.

[FrukostScones]

Let's continue this discussion in the testing thread. Mods, if you please?

I just wanted to talk about the laptimes of the W02 here. Actually it is not very friendly to its tyres. For me this is a certain characteristic of the car tho it is not visual. This can be discussed here in my opinion. Better than to speculate about coming or not coming updates. Like the magic sidepods we all are dreaming of, me included.

@raymondu999 ahh ok, thought you meant commenting lap charts here in general.

[marcush.]

Schu just completed his race sim ...started with 27s dropped 8 tenths stabilised for some laps than another second stabilised and ended the stnt with 1.30 ... so it is not really quick right now on empty tanks but at least its not degrading big time.they need to add performance big time..

So the 27s are their potential for lowish fuel /and on NOT the softest rubber - as the degrading was not as severe .
Now the question is which compound ? and what´s in there with super soft?

[raymondu999]

Let's continue this discussion in the testing thread. Mods, if you please?

I just wanted to talk about the laptimes of the W02 here. Actually it is not very friendly to its tyres. For me this is a certain characteristic of the car tho it is not visual. This can be discussed here in my opinion. Better than to speculate about coming or not coming updates. Like the magic sidepods we all are dreaming of, me included.

Errm... I wasn't talking to you, I was talking to dren analysing laptimes through statistical software.