Mercedes GP W02

[luca]

Also, new/slightly different rear wing?

[Raptor22]

it is completely possible to enter a completely different car for the first Grand Prix and have it on the pace immediately if you understand:

how the tyres behave under stress
your mechanical systems, vibration, temperature
have ironed out the mechanical and electrical bugs

All the mechanical and electronic hardware can be transfered to completely different chassis and they could have a race winner.

These teams are not running around in circles trying to understand how stiff their chassis is or how effective ther suspension is or if their gearbox changes gears. they are trying to understand how all these systems works under stress.

In the past,teams used the previous years chassis as a test mule for proving mechanical components. Ferrari in the past actually built a whole new test mule called the 639 to test the first semi auto gearbox for the race car the 640 (F189).

Homologating a chassis in 2011 is no problem because the chassis homologation rule has been scrapped this year. All teams can make changes to their chassis through the year since these are usually replaced at a lower cost than it takes to develop a new front wing. They are limited to the number they can produce and IIRC the front wing is homologated.
Homologation in effect starts at the scrutineering for the first GP. Homologated parts cannot be changed from then on.

As for the W02 it is not inconceivable that it is running the chassis for 2011 since but it is also conceivable that it isn't. At the end of the day the new systems to be tested will take precedence over items that are known i.e. chassis suspension (these can be modelled succesfully since they have produced many of these in the past.
Things that cannot be tested or are hard to test virtually would be the hydraulics hardware, KERS, rear wing since these have an impact on how the driver behaves with the car. For some things there is no substitute for track time.
All this discussion shows is how few people are actually aware of what happens back at the factories for these teams.

[Francesc]

Also, new/slightly different rear wing?

Yes

[luca]

Homologating a chassis in 2011 is no problem because the chassis homologation rule has been scrapped this year. All teams can make changes to their chassis through the year since these are usually replaced at a lower cost than it takes to develop a new front wing. They are limited to the number they can produce and IIRC the front wing is homologated.
Homologation in effect starts at the scrutineering for the first GP. Homologated parts cannot be changed from then on.

Really? When did they drop the chassis homologation rule?
If this is true, this is great news!

[myurr]

Raptor22 - I admire your devotion to the team and I genuinely wish the team well, but you really are clutching at straws. What you're seeing in the Mercedes is 90% what they'll be running in the first race. There'll be updates and tweaks on all the cars, and probably one or two cars will feature some new innovation that they didn't want copied, but no team will have a visually radical overhaul or completely brand new car.

We all go through the same thing every year, with some teams promising radical overhauls and spectacular upgrades, and come the first race we're all left pointing out little features and having to highlight them on the photos as they're so subtle. This year will be no different, and if Mercedes introduce a car which shares no major parts with the current 'interim' car then I'll post you a beer.

[luca]

From Autosport.com:

Nico Rosberg conceded that Mercedes still isn't happy with its car, despite completing the most laps today (131) and getting in several long runs.

Rosberg found better consistency with his tyres on runs this afternoon, but the car still lacked the pace to match the front runners.

When asked if he felt the performance of the MGP W02 is not there at the moment, he said: "Oh, that's for sure. Not yet.

"Our plan was always just to have a car to do some reliability testing. That's working out, although we still have some issues we need to sort out.

"We're going to look at performance soon, I think at the next test, and in the first race we'll know where we are. Until then it's difficult."

Rosberg added that he believes drivers will be able to make a bigger difference this season, due the delicacy of the Pirelli tyres over long runs.

"The driver really is the key because you have to nurse the tyres in the beginning, and you've got to judge it perfectly to be able to get that long run exactly the amount of laps you have to do, and save the tyres until the last lap, so it's very interesting," he said.

"I'm learning a lot because, especially the tyres, it's whole new situation - first of all in terms of driving style to get the best out of them for one lap, because it's difficult.

"For example the front tyres, as soon as you steer too much, they lose a lot of grip and just wash out, so you have to be very careful what you're doing with the steering wheel, how much angle you put in."

The last part about the front tyres does not sound too good for Schumacher, does it?

[Raptor22]

Homologating a chassis in 2011 is no problem because the chassis homologation rule has been scrapped this year. All teams can make changes to their chassis through the year since these are usually replaced at a lower cost than it takes to develop a new front wing. They are limited to the number they can produce and IIRC the front wing is homologated.
Homologation in effect starts at the scrutineering for the first GP. Homologated parts cannot be changed from then on.

Really? When did they drop the chassis homologation rule?
If this is true, this is great news!

Apparently over the winter. Ross Brawn I think mentioned it when he was asked about whether Mercedes would be developing a similar exhaust system. He mentioned that last year it would have been difficult but thise year the chassis homologation rule is dropped so its possible to alter the chassis design to accomodate a Renault esque exhaust system.
Myurr, I don't know what Mercedes will bring to the first GP. All I am commenting on the credibility of the Brawn, Rosberg and Schumacher's statements wrt to the car being completely change by the first GP. What we need to realise is that the cars are always in a constant state of evolution. Differnet radiators for different circuits. Different dampers, different exhausts lengths for powerband manipulation, different wingseven different electronics mapping. Will the W02 be substantially visually different? I don't really know. They could lengthen it by a foot and it would be barely noticable but that constitutes a substantial change.

BTW, I prefer Grolsch, the swing top.

[ForMuLaOne]

Car will be changed. Won`t look the same. Stop discussing about that

[andrew]

How do you know it will?

[Byronrhys]

he is Ross Brawn =D>

[ForMuLaOne]

How do you know it will?

Because they would never build a car that is technically one or a few steps back. In some areas this car is far away from a final version. It is not even an interim car, it is just a prototype...and i cannot understand why people don`t see it.

[andrew]

So blind faith then.

Personnally, I smell another silver disaster. I don't believe for one minute that a final version (excluding normal updates throughout the season) of a car that has been developed for around 6 months is not being tested. The alarm bells are getting louder around Merc.

[Raptor22]

in the absence of information that is able to be shared, blind faith is really all there is......

Howeever faith is only bling when the facts are ignored. In the caes of the W02 the only people using blind faith are the Merc detractors. All those speaking rationally about the car and their current testing acknowledge the current car is slow but also see characteristics that point to what has been cimmunicated from the team to have a large element of truth.


Often, faith trumps sceptisism but in any healthy rational human being both are present.

[myurr]

in the absence of information that is able to be shared, blind faith is really all there is......

We have a wealth of information - history.

In the caes of the W02 the only people using blind faith are the Merc detractors.

That's a bit far fetched. You acknowledge the current car is slow but have faith in the team that a radical overhaul is in the works. I acknowledge the current car is slow, but based on past rhetoric from this team and others in the past I do not have faith that a radical overhaul is in the works, at least not one that will appear and fix all their problems by the first race.

Why is my opinion, that at least has some basis in historical reality, blind faith but yours is rational?

[siskue2005]

........