Mercedes GP W02

[wesley123]

How do you know it will?

Because they would never build a car that is technically one or a few steps back. In some areas this car is far away from a final version. It is not even an interim car, it is just a prototype...and i cannot understand why people don`t see it.

They never build a car that is a few steps back?

2010 - Mercedes W01
2007 - Honda RA107
2008 - Honda RA108

And those a recent examples

[siskue2005]

So Merc will debut a largely untested car at the first race? Doubt it

I hope I'm wrong but 2011 looks like a repeat of 2010 for Merc.

Well, with all due respect as you say (damn I hate that phrase!), this is a car that has supposedly been developed since mid-2010 and it isn't working for them. To call it an "interimcar" is just code for "Merc hae made another screw-up".

Like I said, a carbon copy of last year and we all know how that went.

The only explanation is that Merc have missed the boat on this years innovations and are on the back foot.

Whilst I normally rant against the constant mindless bashing of Merc by Segedunum, I find I am in agreement on this occasion.

I just can't understand how a team like Merc can say their car has been in development for at least 6 months yet come testing they are using an interim car.

Without going into the realms of fantasy, can ayone explain this as it seems to be that either Merc have been telling us all porkies or they hav escrewed up again.

But they did have the double diffuser that other teams mysteriously didn't have until later in the season. By then the damage was done and Brawn had a huge lead.

So blind faith then.

Personnally, I smell another silver disaster. I don't believe for one minute that a final version (excluding normal updates throughout the season) of a car that has been developed for around 6 months is not being tested. The alarm bells are getting louder around Merc.

Yeah yeah we got it already
guys please dont feed this TROLL!
i dont know why this guy is allowed to pollute the entire thread with his BS
Mods please clean up

And for the final time, the car will change according to NORBER HAUG, MICHAEL SCHUMACHER, NICO , and ROSS BRAWN's direct statment.
So shut up until the first race!

[ForMuLaOne]

Why is my opinion, that at least has some basis in historical reality, blind faith but yours is rational?

Because taking historical reality needs to be done in the right way . 2010 was TOTALLY different from this year in terms of car development. The team did not have as much time as they had for this car. If you read latest interview with Rosberg "blind faith" disappears, and your statement becomes history very quick.

"In which position do you see mercedes compared to other teams at the moment?"

Rosberg smiling: "Right now, i`d say that I don`t see us at all"

[siskue2005]

Now lets just "brainstorm": What parts of a car can't be redesigned during a F1 season? What parts are really hard to redesign and what parts are really easy to change?

BTW: Any corrections/additions are welcome!!!

Parts that can't be redesigned (Crash structure):
* Nose cone
* Roll-over structure
* side crash-structure.
* ???

Things that are hard to change (4-6 Months):
* Wheelbase
* Packaging
* ???

Things that are easy to change/copy (1-2 Months):
* Front wings
* Rear wings
* Radiators
* ???[/b]

Chassiss homologation rule is scrapped for 2011

[andrew]

guys please dont feed this TROLL!
i dont know why this guy is allowed to pollute the entire thread with his BS
Mods please clean up

So because I don't have any faith in Merc and differ in opinion to you, I am therefore a troll?

I am just stating the facts as I see them. A car that has been developed since mid 2010 and sadly there is very little to show for it, in relation to the other leading teams.

Although I want Schumacher and Brawn to succeed again, and will be rooting for them, I find it impossible to be optimistic so far. As said earlier I hope I am wrong, but this seems to be a repeat of last year. I find it hard to believe that any team hoping to challenge for the championship are being so conservative in their approach. I see little point in being anything other than realistic towards the 2011 story so far. If this makes me a troll, then the world has truely gone mad.

[ForMuLaOne]

And for those who dont understand my earlier comment. Step back means building a car less sophisticated than the season before....which they did if you watch the sidepots. And why? Cause they can.....they will show a different one once they`re done with reliability testing. PLEASE GET IT!

[scuderiafan]

Off topic, but are those vapor trails coming coming off the rear wing there? I remember seeing them in Malaysia in 2009.

[andrew]

^ Not sure. The one on the right looks almost like a mark on the camera lens. Have you got anyother photos from a different angle showing this?

If this is from todays test it is possible as there was rain in the morning though the track appears dry.

[scuderiafan]

^ Not sure. The one on the right looks almost like a mark on the camera lens. Have you got anyother photos from a different angle showing this?

If this is from todays test it is possible as there was rain in the morning though the track appears dry.

No, I got the picture from somewhere in this thread. I can understand if the mark on the right is a smudge or something, but there's another mark on the left, coming off of the wing as well

[Afterburner]

And for those who dont understand my earlier comment. Step back means building a car less sophisticated than the season before....which they did if you watch the sidepots. And why? Cause they can.....they will show a different one once they`re done with reliability testing. PLEASE GET IT!

Let's say you're correct (i doubt), why are they hidding their game? If it's something radical they're stupid not testing it now, the only excuse i can see is if they found something clever and don't want rival copy the ideias.

[Raptor22]

in the absence of information that is able to be shared, blind faith is really all there is......

We have a wealth of information - history.

In the caes of the W02 the only people using blind faith are the Merc detractors.

That's a bit far fetched. You acknowledge the current car is slow but have faith in the team that a radical overhaul is in the works. I acknowledge the current car is slow, but based on past rhetoric from this team and others in the past I do not have faith that a radical overhaul is in the works, at least not one that will appear and fix all their problems by the first race.

Why is my opinion, that at least has some basis in historical reality, blind faith but yours is rational?

Because history always needs to be viewed from all sides, even if it takes us places we don't want to go.
Was the W01 designed on a big budget? Likely not since Mercedes came on board rather late.
When Mercedes said last year they would upgrade the W01, they did. There was no major external changes but the weight distribution was changed and the suspension was altered to assist. Thats a fairly substantial upgrade. It did not cure the cars ill's immediately but toward the end of 2010 the car was showing signs of marked improvement. What never did change was it's poor use of the tyres and that was something Mercedes aknowledged they had a major issue with.
On F1 cars, what we consider to be big changes has to be visually apparent. But to the f1 engineer its the impact on design, manufacturing and performance.
Often the marriage between the Engineers perspection and the fans expectation is a miserable one.

I have no idea where the W02 is in relation to the competition since I have no inside knowledge on the objectives of the testing programme other than methodology that I have been privy to with another team.
The only truth is Q3 at the fisrt grand prix. Everything else is speculation and persoanl opinion. I believe Merc if they say they have big upgrade for Bahrain. Will it have an impact on performance? I don't know. Will it make the car look radically different? I don't know.

The differnece between our opinions is that one looks forward positively while the other looks backward negatively.

[Med4224]

guys please dont feed this TROLL!
i dont know why this guy is allowed to pollute the entire thread with his BS
Mods please clean up

So because I don't have any faith in Merc and differ in opinion to you, I am therefore a troll?

I am just stating the facts as I see them. A car that has been developed since mid 2010 and sadly there is very little to show for it, in relation to the other leading teams.

Although I want Schumacher and Brawn to succeed again, and will be rooting for them, I find it impossible to be optimistic so far. As said earlier I hope I am wrong, but this seems to be a repeat of last year. I find it hard to believe that any team hoping to challenge for the championship are being so conservative in their approach. I see little point in being anything other than realistic towards the 2011 story so far. If this makes me a troll, then the world has truely gone mad.

Seriously? i take it you didn't study scientific theory in college

Facts as i see them = opinion

Facts are what multiple observers see the same

so you are stating your opinions
and you have every right to, you're not trolling

but my friend if you are this pessimistic in your personal life
then dude...

[andrew]

No, I got the picture from somewhere in this thread. I can understand if the mark on the right is a smudge or something, but there's another mark on the left, coming off of the wing as well

I saw that mark. It is quite possible, one of the aero experienced board members will be able to advise better but it looks like it could be a vapour trail.

Let's say you're correct (i doubt), why are they hidding their game? If it's something radical they're stupid not testing it now, the only excuse i can see is if they found something clever and don't want rival copy the ideias.

I guess the aerodynamics of the car can be refined in the wind tunnel. If they are doing this it is a brave move.

[andrew]

but my friend if you are this pessimistic in your personal life
then dude...

Not so much pessimistic, more realistic (but hoping I am wrong).

[Med4224]

the discussion we are all having is fruitless
we have no data to rely on
and this banter on what will come has no weight

you can talk all you want
but we'll see the truth at the first race

anything else is trivia

wait and see...