Mercedes GP W02

[Chalke]

Its been explained in this thread over and over, If you still don;t understand how testing systems in a mule and testing a complete car differs then you should rather still and listen rather than comment.

You can't test anything in a mule, and certainly not for a Formula 1 car, because the components and especially the aerodynamic elements are completely interdependent. You change one thing and over a dozen other things change as well as the reliability of the components you're not testing. You also don't have the track testing time to do anything like that these days.

You can't test a car that you're not actually testing. It's tosh.

Well, that's just not true is is? If you can't test with a mule then they would never have existed in various forms of motorsports for countless years.

Without any time spent thinking, things to test on a MB mule woud include:

The new KERS system
The engine itself, mechanically
New maps for the engine
The drag reduction rear wing mechanism
New electronic systems, and their interaction with others
Gaining a general understanding of Pirelli's characteristics degradation and wear
Testing design concepts to be expanded on the 'final' car

I don't claim to know what, if anything MB will change, though this car does appear 'unfinished' - but so do elements of the Redbull, Ferrari, and especially Mclaren. I would hope for MB's sake that they have some new sidepods under construction atleast, and it's assumed that every team will only bring their final front wing to the last test/first race.

At this stage all we can do is speculate and make educated guesses, but the only people that really know are likely to be employees of MB. Anyone else is stating their opinion, and can't guarantee 'fact'.

[raymondu999]

Interesting tidbit from Gary Anderson's blog (I have an Autosport Plus online subscription):

Nico Rosberg was having to work the car hard to get it to turn into the faster stuff – at Turns 1, 3 and 9 this is particularly obvious. He just can't get it to turn in as he would like and carry the speed into the corner. There's a big upgrade planned and it had better be huge, because this car doesn't even look like a Q3 contender on its performance so far

[Pierce89]

And for those who dont understand my earlier comment. Step back means building a car less sophisticated than the season before....which they did if you watch the sidepots. And why? Cause they can.....they will show a different one once they`re done with reliability testing. PLEASE GET IT!

Let's say you're correct (i doubt), why are they hidding their game? If it's something radical they're stupid not testing it now, the only excuse i can see is if they found something clever and don't want rival copy the ideias.

Well it appears you have run a testing programme ( either reliability o performance) for an F1 team in the past. Please apply for Ross Brawn's job since you clearly know enough to call him and all the other folk back at Brackley and Stuttgart stupid.
Just because YOU don't understand something, does not make the other guy stupid.

Its been explained in this thread over and over, If you still don;t understand how testing systems in a mule and testing a complete car differs then you should rather still and listen rather than comment. Chassis can be tested with in a software package. With modern CADCAM, the results coming out of the mould are within 0.1% of what is designed. What you predict in the model translates to the track.
With modern CFD, its 98% accurate in predicting aewrodynamic performance of integrated structures inside a computer.
What cannot be rpedicted with reasonable accuracy is the effect on under cover heat on hydraulics, vibration on new systems and tyre "feel" for the driver.
If one wants to understand tyre performance you build a car that serves as a baseline for establishing that performance.
You want something with more adjustment points than you would normally use on a race car in order to make nmore drastic changes to suspension geometry and performance.
You build the car so it has aerodynamics that is relatively simple and consistent through various envelopes of speed pitch and yaw. It does not have to be very high numbers for downforce just exhibit consist performance so it does not skew the data you want to collect. Then you run the car and gather data to build a model that will help you understand the tyre's behaviour and can verify the models performance for accuracy.
Now you can integrate that into your simulator and you can start to model the car effectively in that environment where you will be testing any future upgrades since testing is banned.
Remember that Merc have few issues on their plate to resolve so they can sustain a development program effectively over the coming seasons.

Yet despite all of this I still don;t know exactly what they are doing, only speculate on where they need to be, what they need to get there and how they could go about achieving that.
Its irrational to write them off before they have raced the car and without understanding how they are implementing thier plans to get to the top.

But hey, the armchair pundits always know better than the folk in the trenches

I'm sorry, but this is delusional. Every team's NEW car IS the car they will race. Sure Merc has upgrades in the pipeline EVERYONE DOES. EVERYONE are developing their 2011 race machines. You can't really believe every team has a representative car EXCEPT Merc, and come the fisrt race they'll wheel out a car 2 seconds a lap quicker and blow everyone away. They are testing their 2011 car just like all the other teams. They're just slow. You're basing your argument on believing Shumi and Brawn are invincible when last year disproved it. There ARE NOT any quotes where Brawn says this car is ONLY a test car and is NOT the race car.

[ringo]

Once team honda always team honda. Bob Bell is a nice change of "spots" but Merc should have been purging out the team much earlier.

I'm not passing judgment on the car yet though. It may be slowish now, but the way the rules are all it takes is a floor, sidepod, exhaust, wings, suspension change and you have yourself a new car.

Just a few gimmicks like the Williams gearbox, redbull fuel tank shape, is safe from copying.
Not even Torro Rosso sidepods and renault exhaust are safe from blatant copying.
The merc can come good, even if it's in the 3rd or 4rth race.
Their suspension know how is one of the stubborn characteristics though.

[bar555]

Mercedes W02 – Rear Zone & cooling options
http://formula1techandart.wordpress.com ... g-options/

[FrukostScones]

Depressing news: Norbert Haug yesterday: "If today was a race we wouldn't finish in the top ten."
source: automotorundsport.de

And I don't think there are bluffing, the car is bad, maybe because it is so short and has such a short wheelbase. They should stretch it immediately!

[Blackout]

Mercedes W02 – Rear Zone & cooling options
http://formula1techandart.wordpress.com ... g-options/

And what about this hole:

[bar555]

I cann't figure clearly if this is a hole or a heat protective cover or something else . The certain is that exhaust pipes are pointing outwards rather inwards to blow through this duct ( if it is a duct of course) .

[xpensive]

Now that most members seem to agree the W02 is not going to set Bahrain on fire and that the attention to detail looks less than average, I wonder what prompted the design-team to go for a wheelbase some 150-200 mm shorter than the other cars?

Did they seriously believe they were onto something nobody else had grasped, it's hardly something you pick arbitrarily?

[zgred]

[JohnsonsEvilTwin]

Now that most members seem to agree the W02 is not going to set Bahrain on fire and that the attention to detail looks less than average, I wonder what prompted the design-team to go for a wheelbase some 150-200 mm shorter than the other cars?

Did they seriously believe they were onto something nobody else had grasped, it's hardly something you pick arbitrarily?

+1
Im pretty hardcore Mercedes biased, but it seems the short wheelbase idea hasnt been followed by anyone other than Mercedes. What is it doing for them and why?

Secondly regards the cars performance, I agree it isnt stellar. Gary Anderson has said its not a Q3 car at the moment, and if that is the case in Bahrain then I for one will want to see heads roll. The Silver arrows arent there to make up numbers, not in my book.

What is good to see is Brawn sticking to his guns. They started testing by letting everyone know that the first 3 tests will just be about pounding round the track to get decent tyre models and KERS running. We have seen them stay true to that.
Also changing to pullrod, the team will want to get as much data about that as possible.

This business of front end not biting into fast corners has me shaking now. But if they have solutions to come(which they say they do) then the car will probably have better front end characteristics.
I dont see a much changed car, I see a better finished car, with new front wings and some changes to the sidepod...possibly even a slightly longer wheel base to the comical one they have now.

The acid test will be once these upgrades arrive.

We have heard the noises before. But we havent had the same set of circumstances.
So we can use history as a marker, but history is only ever repeated if you dont learn from past errors.
Brawn has reorganised his team and added a few notable team names, he more than anyone will know the teams frailties and he has done what he deems necessary.

How much of a changed car will we see?
Will the upgrades work?
Is it wise to leave the running of your updates till the last possible moment?
Has the changes made over the last year worked?
Is there somthing Mercedes are waiting to unveil at the latest possible oppurtunity to maximise the time they can use it before others cotton on?(unlikely, but still possible)

All of this is speculation. Arguing over it is like chewing gum over a maths problem, it wont help. Nor will sticking the boot into the team at every available oppurtunity. I think 95% of us want the car to be fast, as a winning silver arrow will be good for F1 in general I think. Equally, because the W02 is the first "proper" Mercedes, we shouldnt expect miracles from them just because its a "silberpfeile". Hope springs eternal, and if hope powered the team Im pretty sure Mercedes would be winning races.

Lets see if they have an ace up their sleeve, and are playing this really cool given the fanfare and dissapointment of 2010.

[Ferraripilot]

Nico getting a bit of speed out of the thing with a 1m23.752. No idea how many laps his run was yet. Petrov quickly debunked the time coming in nearly .3 quicker. Petrov did only 2-3 laps.

[Ferraripilot]

[/quote]
I'm sorry, but this is delusional. Every team's NEW car IS the car they will race. Sure Merc has upgrades in the pipeline EVERYONE DOES. EVERYONE are developing their 2011 race machines. You can't really believe every team has a representative car EXCEPT Merc, and come the fisrt race they'll wheel out a car 2 seconds a lap quicker and blow everyone away. They are testing their 2011 car just like all the other teams. They're just slow. You're basing your argument on believing Shumi and Brawn are invincible when last year disproved it. There ARE NOT any quotes where Brawn says this car is ONLY a test car and is NOT the race car.[/quote]

This is just a silly comment. Every team is running 3 piece front wings and by all means does not have a very vanilla car as MB has. Nico and Brawn have both stated on multiple occasions this is an 'interim' car while NO other team is stating anything as such. I suspect Mcl, Ferrari, and RB will probably have some minor change with slightly different front and rear wings and perhaps a diffuser, but W02 is expecting a hell-of-a-lot more, which has also been publicly stated. Granted if MB does not hold up to what they are stating they will lose my confidence, but at this point I certainly believe their rhetoric as W02 is just incredibly plain.

[Ferraripilot]

more out of Nico setting the quickest time at Barc testing thus far 1m23.168. I think Red Bull and Ferrari will break 1:22

[segedunum]

Without any time spent thinking, things to test on a MB mule woud include:
The new KERS system
The engine itself, mechanically
New maps for the engine
The drag reduction rear wing mechanism
New electronic systems, and their interaction with others
Gaining a general understanding of Pirelli's characteristics degradation and wear
Testing design concepts to be expanded on the 'final' car

No, because the aerodynamics amongst other things would heavily influence those things and you'd have to calibrate it all with the rest of the car. Any number of things would also influence tyre wear, so if you haven't got the aerodynamic and mechanical set up that you're going to use on your race car then your data is useless.

You have to be very careful when using a 'mule' for anything that it is completely self-contained in terms of its influence and that you're testing components that you are 100% sure won't be influenced by anything on the mule. With a Formula 1 car this is never the case.