Toro Rosso STR6 Ferrari

[Formula None]

[scuderiafan]

So how exactly does a double floor work? I don't understand.

[timbo]

So how exactly does a double floor work? I don't understand.

You get better quality airflow over the diffuser, which helps maintaining low-pressure beneath the floor = more downforce.

[ringo]

So how exactly does a double floor work? I don't understand.

This is basically like Mclarens sidepods, just underneath. Air just has a straight shot to the top of the diffuser and diffuser gurneys.

The air flow is much faster than if it had to go around the sidepod and decelerated between wheel and gearbox.

The double floor is more about allowing air to pass to the rear into the exhaust stream than creating downforce from the sidepod.

[StrFerrari4Ever]

An interesting interview from Jaime.

http://www.caranddriverthef1.com/formul ... s-en-boxes

P: ¿Are you surprised with your time?
Jaime Alguersuari: I was surprised by the performance of the supersoft tyres, I didn't expect so much potential on one lap. They gave me a lot of adherence and I was able to make a good time. I was surprised also because we were carrying a decent amount of fuel so I'm happy because all the teams must be around that levels, except obviously Red Bull and Ferrari. I think we are at a good level to begin the season but there's margin to improvement and lot of things to learn.

P: ¿Could you have done some more laps on your best stint?
JA: Yes, a lot more. The problem is degradation on the tyres. Supersoft is very very soft.

P: Pundits say supersoft only has one lap…
JA: It has one lap, like softs. You've got to make the most from that lap, know how to warm the tyres... and with supersofts it's even more important. We did a good job today, we've done probably the best we could have done, both on long stints and short ones, and the most important part, we didn't do low on fuel. Tiene una vuelta, como el blando. Esa vuelta tienes que aprovecharla, saber cómo entra en temperatura bien… y con el superblando todavía más. Nos ha salido bien, hemos hecho seguramente lo mejor que podíamos hacer hoy, tanto en stint corto como en largo y, lo más importante, no lo hemos hecho con poca gasolina. Eso es lo más positivo.

P: We would like to know how was your feeling with each compound and the time difference between them.
JA: What I could tell you here it probably won't make any sense in the next test session. Zero.

P: It depends on track temperature.
JA: Exactly. Hard compound worked on a totally different way here and in Jerez. Totally. Medium compound is quite consistent here but not in Jerez and the other way round with the hard.

P: But Pirelli only modified softs and supersofts.
JA: But there's lots of parameters to play with. We are driving like in a endurance race. When you carry 130 or 140 kilos if you push on the tyres a little bit too much you lose them. It will last only five or six laps. Even braking 20 meters before and opening gas 20 meters before, driving ultra smooth, going one second per lap slower to make them last more... they didn't last much. Pirelli was told to do this and they've done a good job, It's good for me.

P: Fine drivers?
JA: It's not that. It's good for middle teams. Not so good for top teams but I'm interested in races with four or five stops. Or even more.

P: How many do you think there will be here?
JA: Three or four I guess.

P: You lost a second in one lap on a good stint...
JA: A lot.

P: And when do you stop losing time?
JA: You've got to adjust the front wing for the race and the pressures that are very important.

P: It looks like the times never become stable.
JA: You can't make comparisons with last year. It's completely wrong. There's a moment when they don't stop degrading. You start lapping on 1'30'' or 1'31'' and you get to 1'35''. I don't know how heavy the rest were lapping, you never known. Some may carry 90 kilos for 20 laps and others 120 kilos for the same laps but you don't know the weigh difference. You can't see it. You only see tyres degrading at different rates. When you reach some degradation levels it's a security concern. There are car that could go 5 seconds faster than others or even more, for example a Red Bull or a Ferrari. When your rear tyres are wasted it becomes very difficult to keep the car on the track, specially on fast corners.

P: When you were losing five seconds in five laps or so, what was the compound?
JA: I don't remember well... hard I guess, or supposedly hard! In Jerez it worked very good, Buemi did a very long stint, a second faster than Barrichello and near Ferrari. Ultra fast. We got here with the same compound and we are losing a second per lap.

P: Are you worried?
JA: It's the same for everyone. It's not like when some teams had Michelins and others Bridgestones, when Fernando was winning. Things were different. On wet conditions, with inters... here inters do not seem to degrade, don't know why. Bridgestones didn't last more than six laps. Korea, China...

P: But last year some cars were more gently on tyres than others. Do you know where are you?
JA: No idea. We've got to race, and when temperatures change... if we go to Bahrain, with 20 or 30 degrees more things will be different, a lot.

P: How was last year's car entry on corners compared to the new one.
JA: You've got to change you driving style completely. One way for one lap and another way for the race. You have to enter the corner in a different way, look for the grip to save the tyres and get the most of them at the same time. You can't say the tyres favour one driver or another. It's silly. At the end top drivers adapt to all circumstances, dry conditions, wet conditions, with crocodiles or with 18 pit stops. Top drivers always find a plus.

P: Is there any standard style for this huge changes?
JA: Every corner is different. The drivers are different too. Buemi drives on a different way to me and I know that with the same setup, same fuel, same tyres... we are going to say different things about the car. Everyone has his own style. Fernando drives very different to Massa. Some drivers use more the front tyres. Fernando is very aggressive on front tyres. I like to get very fast to the corners and use the wheel a lot. When I started training with 125cc karts I realize I couldn't drive them like 100cc ones, taking the corners very open. I had to brake on the inside and exit on the inside, tyres straight and using gears because the engine is more powerful. Tennis and padel are not the same, right?

[Formula None]

Nice perspective on the undercut:

[Intego]

So how exactly does a double floor work? I don't understand.

This is the undoubtedly most exact description: scarbsf1/toro-rosso-str06-double-floor

[willga]

Speaking purely as a layman, the last 2 double-floors which immediately spring to mind (Ferrari F92; Ferrari F310) were absolute stinkers.

Wasn't it something to do with the disadvantage of raising the centre of gravity far outweighed any aerodynamic gains; this coupled with a relatively floppy floor, as it was no longer stiffened by the upper bodywork.
Certainly, I think they ended up filling the F92's double floor in by the end of the season.

Please, someone put me right, but what's different about the STR design that'll make it successful?

[Giblet]

Speaking purely as a layman, the last 2 double-floors which immediately spring to mind (Ferrari F92; Ferrari F310) were absolute stinkers.

Wasn't it something to do with the disadvantage of raising the centre of gravity far outweighed any aerodynamic gains; this coupled with a relatively floppy floor, as it was no longer stiffened by the upper bodywork.
Certainly, I think they ended up filling the F92's double floor in by the end of the season.

Please, someone put me right, but what's different about the STR design that'll make it successful?

I think it fares a better chance as with the limitations on the diffuser size and shape, there is little one team can do over another with the diffuser design to get a huge downforce advantage.

The importance then becomes getting the air to the diffuser to energize it, and the more cleaner air the better. The double floor is one way, coke bottle shape another, and the moose pods a third in current cars.

The path along the floor to the diffuser is unimpeded for the most part.

[PNSD]

Is double floor the right term for this car? It does not feature a twin-floor ala the Ferrari 92-A or the later version. It just looks as though the sidepods are fully undercut, but sculptured as an inverted wing.

[PlatinumZealot]

This is the same basic concept as Mp4-26 but instead of blowing the beam wing, it blows the exhaust. I think it would be the ultimate if the two ideas are combined.

[Raptor22]

Speaking purely as a layman, the last 2 double-floors which immediately spring to mind (Ferrari F92; Ferrari F310) were absolute stinkers.

Wasn't it something to do with the disadvantage of raising the centre of gravity far outweighed any aerodynamic gains; this coupled with a relatively floppy floor, as it was no longer stiffened by the upper bodywork.
Certainly, I think they ended up filling the F92's double floor in by the end of the season.

Please, someone put me right, but what's different about the STR design that'll make it successful?

We don't actually know that the STR6 will be successful. In testing it seems to be quick but we just don't know how it stacks up yet. The F92A and F310 were absolute stinkers; The F92A because it was overweight, had too much drag and had an aweful peaky engine. We don't really know if the aerodynamics worked that well or if it was brilliant because Ferrari got so much of that car wrong it would stink no matter what they did to it.

The F310 was not really a stinker, it just had too much drag. It actually handled quite well and that was something SChumacher found useful about it, especially in fast corners. The limitation was that it was just not that fast in a straight line because John Barnard had not read the rules on design of the head side bolsters correctly and designed it according to the letter of the law. He got smacked sideways when he was the only one with that interpretation and huddled off into a corner to sulk. He never recovered and was replaced by Rory Byrne (who was diving in Thailand. Ferrari never sorted he drag issue out but he car won 3 GP' in Spain, Spa and Italy so it developed into something by year end. we don't know how much the distinctive floor contributed to the performance but Byrne dropped it for the F310B because what it did bring was pitch sensitivity and afar greater "wetted" area for air to passover. CFD techniques were still not widely used in F1 so its was difficult to develop the concept. Byrne opted for a simpler car at his drivers request

[PlatinumZealot]

It's not fair to compare this crude piece of side pod to the modern refinement on the torro rosso. Just look how chunky the F92A sidepods were.

[scuderiafan]

There's nothing else to compare it to!

[Raptor22]

It's not fair to compare this crude piece of side pod to the modern refinement on the torro rosso. Just look how chunky the F92A sidepods were.

Well yeah sort of but the major difference is the floor. The F92A has an unsculped flat carbon sheet of a floor whereas the STR06 and all modern F1 cars have highly refined floors. Thats the biggest difference

However it does not change the fact that the F92A was an overweight flexible pig of a car. Possibly the worst thing Ferrari has ever produced