Mercedes GP W02

[Raptor22]

@marcush and Raptor.

It is also not beyond the realms of reason for Mercedes to increase the wheel base either. As a poster mentioned, short wheel base will exaggerate any characteristics.
Maybe this is the point. Find out what they do at the limit and work around it.

As for the sidepods, well that could be anything. We may see somthing less extravegent but more workable than Mclarens. We may not see anything new.

I think the key to the W02 lies in the Front tyres usage and the three plane front wing. Turn in hampered the W01 and it appears to be in the W02. Solve the turn in issue and Mercedes will be top 3.

Lengthening the wheelbase would be a major change but not beyond the realms of possibility at all. Its been done in the past and it canbe done again.
As for the side pods, I'm sort of betting on an inverted McLaren solution with the exhaust blowing inside that channel. The issue could be increased drag due to the "pipe" between the floor and the bodywork but thats a design problem wrt to tradeoff in drag vs downforce.Another possibility is the sidepods raised off the floor completely.

We can speculate about this and anything really is possible because the current shape appears very simple indeed.
s you correctly state the key lies in improved use of the front tyres. Thats a weight distribution and front end aero issue but also a suspension design issue. They need to achieve the correct mount of anti dive to keep the wing working effectively while reducing shear in the rubber with current wear rates on the P-Zero's it appears they are going to have their work cut out to make the last. Interestingly the short wheel base helps the fronts since the back does not push them as much

Heres my prediction from a few posts back. It would work with their chassis vanes and leading edge of the floor

[JohnsonsEvilTwin]

Yes raptor,

I think Marcush preceded you, although you were both spot on IMO.
Scarbs also makes mention of "other engineers pointing out simple solutions" that no one would expect of this team.

We will have to wait another couple of weeks though!

[Ferraripilot]

Allen is saying the upgrades will be there for the final test. Is that right?

[JohnsonsEvilTwin]

Bloody agents of doom I tell ya.

They may still have a point Raptor. But I choose to sit on the fence, until I see the car in its entirety in FP1 at Oz.
As much as I want this thing to blitz the field, I know you dont just buy a team and 15 months later start winning. If that is the case then great, but this is a building process that appears to have Mercedes looking at 2012 rather than this year for anything tangible.

But its very clear those berating Mercedes for amatuerish bodywork during testing missed the boat, and how!
@Formulaone
It helps when someone of Scarbs gravitas can make informed guesses as to what is going on.

When is the final test guys?

[ForMuLaOne]

Final Test will take place in Barcelona ( March 8th-11th)

[ForMuLaOne]

You don`t have to be an engineer to come to this conclusion. But thanks to scarbs post some doubting people left this conversation.

Please stop trolling. A discussion thread is useless without differing opinions.

Ah ok.....thought i was an example for conformism It is always the same with forums. People always trust other people who are real experts. Except experts talk about their own stuff. In this case it is a silver car. Trolling.....i needed to type this in an online translator =D>

[JohnsonsEvilTwin]

Allen is saying the upgrades will be there for the final test. Is that right?

Depends, Brawn has said all the upgrades may only make the first race of the season, although the target was the final test.
So if they show up at Barca in 2 weeks with an unchanged car, it wont be totally unexpected. Although I think the trolls will rear their heads and lambast Mercedes if that does happen, it has been forewarned we may not see it until FP1 in Oz....

[luca]

Depends, Brawn has said all the upgrades may only make the first race of the season, although the target was the final test.
So if they show up at Barca in 2 weeks with an unchanged car, it wont be totally unexpected. Although I think the trolls will rear their heads and lambast Mercedes if that does happen, it has been forewarned we may not see it until FP1 in Oz....

Yeah, I know that. But if a new exhaust system is really coming soon, they must test it at the final testing session, at least to avoid potential overheating issues at the first race. They might keep the aerodynamic update hidden until the first race though.

[Raptor22]

you sure that it needs to be tested from a heat rejection perspective? I'm pretty sure they couldmount it on a chassis dynamometer and get similar results or run it in a full scale wind tunnel. It does not HAVE to be track tested for that.

It would be good idea to test how it influences the aerodynamics before FP1 in Oz.

I know we're excited to see what new stuff everyone has dreamed up but this limited testing rule has really driven a lot of the innovation into the realm of the super computer and simulation. We only see new parts now once they have been fully simulated and then often the translation to track is pretty good.

[ForMuLaOne]

i really would like to know how Mercedes exhaust version will look like. The floor doesn`t look like it could be a similar solution to Renault`s. Maybe something like Red Bull has? The floor would be prepared in terms of heat isolation.

I do not expect an inverted L Sidepot because of weight distribution. They chose a short wheelbase so the aim should be to place everything next to the center of gravity ( from horizontal, front perspective, not vertical). With more mass at the very end of the floorplate any accelerated mass would have a stronger leverage. So i suggest a sidepot version which is totally raised from the floor, an extreme STR version.

[segedunum]

With the other cars he's been involved with, especially the winning success at Benetton and Ferrari, the first guy he hauled in from Thailand to set up the Maranello design office was Rory Byrne. Ross Brawn didn't do that. He also had a solid head aerodynamacist next to him in Nikolas Tombazis, still at Ferrari.

When he went to Honda as Team Principal those people weren't there. Honda eventually got a winning car after they left, which was the least they would have expected after the investment they put in over the years, and that lasted probably less than six months as they failed to develop and move forwards. For a team that had cash in the bank, knew they were going to get FOM money at the end of the year and had £60 million in the bank at the end of it, all was not what it appeared.

This position has been explained before, at length.

As principal it's been clear the burden of technical direction has fallen on his shoulders. Before Bob Bell I couldn't find a defined Technical Director in the team. Like it or lump it, Ross Brawn has failed to keep the team winning when it was winning and if he needed a Technical Director alongside him then he failed to recruit the right people a lot earlier. It's as simple as that.

Frankly, I would be embarrassed to be associated with that car, the state it's in, and I wouldn't be delivering any ridiculous excuses to the media. I'd keep my mouth shut. If a spectacular car is coming, then it's coming. You don't need to convince anyone with 'cry wolf' soundbites. No one in Formula 1 says anything for nothing, and it's as if he's talking to the Daimler board more than anyone else.

That gives at least some background to why xpensive, I and others think the way we do about the strange things that have gone on at that team.

[segedunum]

You don`t have to be an engineer to come to this conclusion. But thanks to scarbs post some doubting people left this conversation.

Except of course, that this has happened before........

This team are not going to produce a brand new car with different sidepods, front wing and completely different aerodynamics, as well as a new exhaust system that will alter it further, ahead of the first race with no testing whatsoever. Heaven knows, we haven't seen any evidence of those much vaunted 'upgrades' on the car right now which is what you would do with a 'mule'. No one would produce a schedule like that.

Scarb's and Sam Michael's disbelief, and the conclusion, that Mercedes have missed things that would be obvious to other teams is entirely beside the point. Why bother to turn up to a test with such a bucket of bolts in the first place when you've had all the time in the world? Speculation as to what the car should look like is just that. Speculation.

Would anyone like to hazard a guess what they are actually testing with this ****box right now? The front wing changes they have been making suggest they have yet to actually develop a new front wing. If you have one, why not get it out there and do some live testing at least?

[xpensive]

Correct seg, but remember that those six months of fame only came after a rather controversial anomaly with the diffuser, which obviously would have been banned on the spot if it hadn't served and fit MrM's agenda like a connolly-glove.

A fluke.

[ForMuLaOne]

You don't need to convince anyone with 'cry wolf' soundbites. No one in Formula 1 says anything for nothing, and it's as if he's talking to the Daimler board more than anyone else.

That gives at least some background to why xpensive, I and others think the way we do about the strange things that have gone on at that team.

Pahah, that`s really funny. So you believe that Norbert Haug, who is responsible for EVERY racing sport activity at mercedes would keep his mouth shut in front of the Daimler board? Are you really telling that Ross Brawn uses media to calm down the big bosses? You gotta be kidding.

[Onch]

I think RB is more of an organisational guy very advanced technically, rather than really a pure technical guy (like Newey).

Knowing a bit how big manufacturers 'work', I am sure he is spending like 50% of his time just reporting to his management at the moment. This precious time is just wasted instead of being used to guide the design and development of the car.
I don't think he had waste his time like this at Ferrari (and obviously not during the BGP year).

RB was also behind the rather successful Jaguar Le Mans effort at the end of the 80's, so he is certainly not that bad.