Mercedes GP W02

[ForMuLaOne]

I think RB is more of an organisational guy very advanced technically, rather than really a pure technical guy (like Newey).

Knowing a bit how big manufacturers 'work', I am sure he is spending like 50% of his time just reporting to his management at the moment. This precious time is just wasted instead of being used to guide the design and development of the car.
I don't think he had waste his time like this at Ferrari (and obviously not during the BGP year).

RB was also behind the rather successful Jaguar Le Mans effort at the end of the 80's, so he is certainly not that bad.

Please be so kind to describe Norbert Haug`s position in this team.

[Raptor22]

You don't need to convince anyone with 'cry wolf' soundbites. No one in Formula 1 says anything for nothing, and it's as if he's talking to the Daimler board more than anyone else.

That gives at least some background to why xpensive, I and others think the way we do about the strange things that have gone on at that team.

Pahah, that`s really funny. So you believe that Norbert Haug, who is responsible for EVERY racing sport activity at mercedes would keep his mouth shut in front of the Daimler board? Are you really telling that Ross Brawn uses media to calm down the big bosses? You gotta be kidding.

+1
I fond that to be the above to be the most childish and naive statement yet on this thread.
As if the Mercede board knos nothing about project management and ROI

[Onch]

Please be so kind to describe Norbert Haug`s position in this team.

Haug is just a marketing/PR guy (edit to say: in the sense that if the management board requires technical details he will go to RB to ask him for some slides to put in his report)... He could be fired tomorrow and it would not make any difference to how the team runs and what the car looks like. ImhO.

As if the Mercedes board knows nothing about project management and ROI

That, to me, is exactly the problem: they approach F1 just like any other marketing project...

[segedunum]

So you believe that Norbert Haug, who is responsible for EVERY racing sport activity at mercedes would keep his mouth shut in front of the Daimler board?

He's almost certainly run out of things to say by now.

Are you really telling that Ross Brawn uses media to calm down the big bosses? You gotta be kidding.

It's really funny that people think this kind of thing doesn't go on. No one says things in this game to the media for nothing. Managing expectations is all part of the game. Why on Earth do you think drivers wander around with PR people holding microphones?

As if the Mercede board knos nothing about project management and ROI

Assuming people to be infallible due to nothing more than their position, and worse, offering that as an argument is just plain idiotic. But, that's no great surprise, is it?

[segedunum]

Please be so kind to describe Norbert Haug`s position in this team.

You've inadvertantly hit on one of the obvious problems. He's a journalist by trade who seemed to hang around the McLaren pits rather a lot like a spare part for many years. Ditto at Mercedes. He's certainly not making the car go faster, unless he's going to blow his hot air over it.

[JohnsonsEvilTwin]

Its a surprise you even watch F1 at all Segedunum.

As every single team will go through a stage of flux. Ferrari have been there, for many years, as have Mclaren recently(09). In fact, Stewart/Jag/Red Bull have also been there and they took 5 years to win a championship in red Bull guise.
Renault? where are they now? Fancy exhaust, full on developed car, and Heidfeld is scratching his head over balance issues.
Hell look at Sauber or even Williams what have these guys done? Not won a race between them in ages.

It seems you should be venting all of your negativity not at Mercedes GP, Brawn, Haug, the Daimler board, Honda or the poor finish of the W02, but at F1 itself.
Go, pollute other threads witht the same negativity and you will get the same response as is very clear in other threads you have posted.

[JohnsonsEvilTwin]

Scarb's and Sam Michael's disbelief, and the conclusion, that Mercedes have missed things that would be obvious to other teams is entirely beside the point.

Of course, what do they know right?

The great master segedunum is obviously gainfully employed in the Red Bull F1 operation or possibly even NASA or skunkworks so great is his knowledge of F1.

Please tell us why we should believe your word over people that have a record in F1?

[gridwalker]

Its a surprise you even watch F1 at all Segedunum.

As every single team will go through a stage of flux. Ferrari have been there, for many years, as have Mclaren recently(09). In fact, Stewart/Jag/Red Bull have also been there and they took 5 years to win a championship in red Bull guise.
Renault? where are they now? Fancy exhaust, full on developed car, and Heidfeld is scratching his head over balance issues.
Hell look at Sauber or even Williams what have these guys done? Not won a race between them in ages.

It seems you should be venting all of your negativity not at Mercedes GP, Brawn, Haug, the Daimler board, Honda or the poor finish of the W02, but at F1 itself.
Go, pollute other threads witht the same negativity and you will get the same response as is very clear in other threads you have posted.

+1

I have a very clear and open bias against any team that has anything to do with Herr Schumacher, so I TRY stay well away from commenting in any thread where my bias would become apparent (and I always label my biased posts, so other forum members know what they are dealing with).

Ranting the same mantra over and over again won't achieve any more than the first wave of upgrades to the W01 (see my bias creeping in there?) ... Everyone's got an opinion on the state of play at Merc GP, but this isn't the place to discuss it : if you want a discussion about the lack of skill at Brackley then start a different thread for it!

Maybe we could start up a forum for Segedunum Vs ALL Mercedes fans : that way we could keep the vitriol from polluting the rest of the damned forum.

[samstre]

Maybe we could start up a forum for Segedunum Vs ALL Mercedes fans : that way we could keep the vitriol from polluting the rest of the damned forum.

=D> =D> =D>

BTW: This post is not against Segedunum... People should be free to express their thoughts. BUT PLEASE PEOPLE... START YOUR OWN THREAD! like "W02 Development issues" ... THX

[mtec80]

ForMuLaOne wrote:
Please be so kind to describe Norbert Haug`s position in this team.

Segedunum wrote:
You've inadvertantly hit on one of the obvious problems. He's a journalist by trade who seemed to hang around the McLaren pits rather a lot like a spare part for many years. Ditto at Mercedes. He's certainly not making the car go faster, unless he's going to blow his hot air over it.

@segedunum: Then you normally must be a good friend of Norbert as you are very familiar with blowing hot air at all... sorry for beeing inpolite but reading all of your negative comments and bashing paroles making me sick!

PLEASE go out and create your own formula one team and - best solution - also drive your own car. After 1st victory you can even judge people like Brawn, Haug and Schumacher.

[xpensive]

This here thread is named "Mercedes GP W02", why I beileve seg is trying to discuss and point out related issues.

And so do I, the W02 is the same s**t-box that has been produced in Brackey ever since the days of Craig Pollock, bar(!) the
six-month fluke mentioned before. The question raised by myself and seg is simply how come Daimler could not see this?

[JohnsonsEvilTwin]

This here thread is named "Mercedes GP W02", why I beileve seg is trying to discuss and point out related issues.

And so do I, the W02 is the same s**t-box that has been produced in Brackey ever since the days of Craig Pollock, bar(!) the
six-month fluke mentioned before. The question raised by myself and seg is simply how come Daimler could not see this?

Perhaps instead of pumping 80 million dollars into a rival entity(McLaren)was less attractive than actually producing their own cars in F1 and getting total exposure.

Not Rocket science now is it....

[andrew]

I'm just annoyed that Merc, and more importantly Schumacher, are screwed beofer they started. I was really hoping for him to have a shot at No. 8 this year!

2011 is sadly a repeat of 2010 thus far.

[Med4224]

This here thread is named "Mercedes GP W02", why I beileve seg is trying to discuss and point out related issues.

And so do I, the W02 is the same s**t-box that has been produced in Brackey ever since the days of Craig Pollock, bar(!) the
six-month fluke mentioned before. The question raised by myself and seg is simply how come Daimler could not see this?

yes, you and everybody else have every right to post any opinion about the W02 whether for or against.

But please, some humility. Are you saying that you see better than Daimler????
You, a mere fan -with all due respect-, can see better than an outfit that is the best in the world and that is investing millions in this team???
Please observe humility and logic in your posts.

I participated in several Mercedes projects and their methodology is the same as the one they're using with Mercedes GP.
1. They questioned Brawn over 2010, and they accepted his arguments.
2. They requested that he gives them a 3-5 year strategy on how to make this a winning team and a permenant contender in F1.
3. They made it clear that they don't expect Brawn to win everything in 2011, but they insisted that they should see progress or they will interfere in a wider fashion.
4. Daimler don't have the mentality of an impatient fan boy who lashes out at every occasion. They know that the correct judgement over Mercedes GP 2011 is to be made with the start of the European season. If they're doing 2010 or worse, Daimler will step-in as a warning, if things continue to go south over the season, they will take over.

Not to sound too proud, but that is how Germans work.

the only take i have on Daimler so far, is that they didn't send their own engineers to Mercedes GP. It's only the Mercedes name so far, and not the ruthless German engineering at work.

So please, sit where you should be, a fan. Don't jump beyond your knowledge.

[segedunum]

Maybe we can stop the tripe being poured into these car threads from people who are doing nothing more than trying to reassure themselves that everything will be OK? This tripe manifests itself for page after page, but when I turn up we've suddenly gone off topic all of a sudden, it's all my doing and all my fault.

The truth is what it is and it hurts I'm afraid, but moaning about other people pointing it out won't help. Making it personal won't help either. I probably like Ferrari less than Mercedes, but nevertheless you can't deny that they look in pretty competent shape. Mercedes, put simply, don't. There it is.

If you want to discuss the car then do it (not that there's much to discuss), but don't start blaming people when they call out the bull.