Is McLaren really off the pace?

[Tamburello]

Those headline times are misleading. No driver has done a proper qualifying type lap yet, i.e. one with enough fuel for one or two circuits.

But from most of the analysis of the long runs and what the balance of the cars seem like out on track, the indications are that McLaren are off the pace and would be right in the midfield mix in terms of Q3 pace. Remember last year they at times struggled in this regard as well, missing out on Q3 occasionally.

So, the times aren't enough to support McLaren but they are enough to damn them?

Look, every major publication, most experts including former race drivers, engineers etc are of the opinion that McLaren are off pace at the moment for the reasons I mentioned. If you want to believe otherwise, it's up to you, but you'd be burying your head in the sand in a very fanboyish manner...

[donskar]

Yes, they are off the pace at the moment.
No, they won't be off the pace when it counts.

This is a well-funded, well-managed team with enormous technical strength and TWO WDCs in its cars.

[Tamburello]

Yes, they are off the pace at the moment.
No, they won't be off the pace when it counts.

This is a well-funded, well-managed team with enormous technical strength and TWO WDCs in its cars.

Well that's just speculation. They were similarly well funded last year too but their car was mostly off race winning pace all season apart from at a handful of circuits.

Ferrari were well funded in 09 and could only manage one win.

Yes, they could very well develop the car to race winning potential by first race, but it certainly ain't a given. In fact, they probably have a lot of work to do in that regard...

[donskar]

Yes, they are off the pace at the moment.
No, they won't be off the pace when it counts.

This is a well-funded, well-managed team with enormous technical strength and TWO WDCs in its cars.

Well that's just speculation. They were similarly well funded last year too but their car was mostly off race winning pace all season apart from at a handful of circuits.

Ferrari were well funded in 09 and could only manage one win.

Yes, they could very well develop the car to race winning potential by first race, but it certainly ain't a given. In fact, they probably have a lot of work to do in that regard...

"Speculation"? It is not speculation to state that McL (the team I love to hate BTW) is one of the few truly great teams in F1 history. They'll be in the running by season's end -- and I'll hate them for it.

[Tamburello]

"Speculation"? It is not speculation to state that McL (the team I love to hate BTW) is one of the few truly great teams in F1 history.

No, this is not speculation because it relates to past performances.

They'll be in the running by season's end --

This is speculation, however, for no matter how great your history is you cannot guarantee to produce the fastest car on the grid.

[SoliRossi]

I actually think that testing times, if you have a resonable understanding of the sport, give a pretty good indication of the pecking order. Of course cars will develop etc... but commenting on where all the cars are at now Macca are behind the 8 ball.

Arguably their two main rivals (Ferrari and RBR) have massivley reliable cars, which is in turn allowing them to gather more data and be more productive at tests. Some of Maccas focus has to be diverted from speed development to reliability developoment in light of how the car has performed on track.

Of course they will develop themselfs to near the front but if they give RBR and Ferrari such a start then realistically its unlikley they will catch and overtake them.

For every new part they introduce so do the other teams, and the other teams are introducing them onto a better base line. Its just the effectivness of those new parts that will dictate if they are at the front or not.

[CHT]

Here is what I think.

Mclaren is lagging behind in their development program for MP4-26 and thats the only reason why they run the MP4-25 at Valencia. Some might argue that running MP4-25 is to get a good baseline of the tyre etc, but I personally doubt that any team in the right mind will choose to sacrifice 3 days of track time (1st to 3rd Feb Valencia) and 10 days of valuable development time (post valencia and Jerez) for their new car.

And my guess is that the reason why Mclaren is lagging behind on MP4-26 is because they have put too much effort in trying to develop the Mp4-25 till very late into the 2010 season. Maybe they are under pressure from sponsors and maybe even Lewis himself to improve the car.

Going forward, I am guessing that Mclaren is now trying to play catch up by using their in house simulator for car development, and hoping that they will have a much more accurate simulator as compared to their rival.

Will they succeed in closing on their rival? Yes.
Will they be good enough to win the WCC or WDC? Quite unlikely.

[myurr]

Here is what I think.

Mclaren is lagging behind in their development program for MP4-26 and thats the only reason why they run the MP4-25 at Valencia. Some might argue that running MP4-25 is to get a good baseline of the tyre etc, but I personally doubt that any team in the right mind will choose to sacrifice 3 days of track time (1st to 3rd Feb Valencia) and 10 days of valuable development time (post valencia and Jerez) for their new car.

Red Bull did exactly that last year.

And my guess is that the reason why Mclaren is lagging behind on MP4-26 is because they have put too much effort in trying to develop the Mp4-25 till very late into the 2010 season. Maybe they are under pressure from sponsors and maybe even Lewis himself to improve the car.

Ferrari and Red Bull were developing the 2010 cars right up to the end as well. They, however, have gone the evolutionary route which (in my opinion) gives them an early advantage of a known and reliable car but less potential for development throughout the season.

Going forward, I am guessing that Mclaren is now trying to play catch up by using their in house simulator for car development, and hoping that they will have a much more accurate simulator as compared to their rival.

That seems to be their strategy every year now.

The main reason I don't think they're in quite the mess that most people seem to think is that they haven't been doing as many aero tests as 2009. It seems that the car is working as expected and they're confident in the upgrades that are coming.

[CHT]

Red Bull did exactly that last year.

IIRC, Redbull didnt turn up with for the Valencia testing all together last year citing that they need more time on the new car. However I do suspect that one of their main reasons was to hide their exhaust design from their rival.

Ferrari and Red Bull were developing the 2010 cars right up to the end as well. They, however, have gone the evolutionary route which (in my opinion) gives them an early advantage of a known and reliable car but less potential for development throughout the season.

Ferrari and Redbull has got no choice but to continue because of the championship last year. However coming from 2010 with an advantage over Mclaren, I believe both Ferrari and Redbull, are proably 2 steps again of Mclaren in terms of the new car development.

That seems to be their strategy every year now.

The main reason I don't think they're in quite the mess that most people seem to think is that they haven't been doing as many aero tests as 2009. It seems that the car is working as expected and they're confident in the upgrades that are coming

I wont be surprise they will be doing that in the final pre-season test session right before australia.

[Raptor22]

You're all wrong, the Mclaren is the fastest car in 2011. YOu just haven't seen its fullpace yet.







complete speculation of course

[raymondu999]

Yeah. Lewis will have this title wrapped up in July. You just wait.

/sarcasm off

[FW17]

Does anyone have comments on MP4-26's mechanical grip?
Does it look like a handful through the corner?
Sure is eating up the tyres but can this be worked around with better settings?

A lot of teams have moved from a push rod suspension to a pull rod, Mclaren being one of them. Is the source of the current problem the new suspension system?

[raymondu999]

I wouldn't bet on McLaren having too many problems mechanically. Unless they have aero that is super sensitive to ride-height like they had last year, forcing them to set up with superstiff springs, then they wouldn't have many problems.

Traditionally, McLaren's strength has been mechanical. Remember their dominance of 2007 Monaco? And also their MP4-24 which was a dog everywhere, but was actually good in slow corners?

[gibells]

My view is that it is all about modelling. I think McLaren's simulator requires a lot of very specific data, which is what they've been collecting, to tune or focus it into delivering more predictable virtual to real outputs throughout the development path. The simulator is only as good as the constraints that you input into the computer, and hopefully in these past 3 tests that is just what they've been doing. Still, you'd have a better feeling if it was higher up the chart.

[raymondu999]

I get the feeling that Red Bull and Ferrari have gone for an approach that optimises the way the basic chassis works the airflow around the car, and as a result, they understand this better. Upgrades are more likely to work. McLaren, however, it seems, have gone for something which I believe Brawn did in 2009 too. Rubbish main chassis, with lots of go-fast bits added to it. Case in point, moosepods. So I feel they don't actually fully understand how the car works, and so they have to go out, collect data, to then input to their CFD and simulators, so that they can actually understand the car better to be able to upgrade it better.