Mercedes GP W02

[Predator]

They've done a good job of lifting everything off of the floor to ensure smooth airflow to the rear but I'm still intrigued as to what they will do with the exhaust. Possibly a configuration similar to RB to come? Also, they're another that have incorporated the beam wing with the crash structure but RB (I think) are the only team that haven't?

[PlatinumZealot]

I think Renault, RBR, TR, Ferrari, Sauber and Williams beam wing is floating. Merc, Mac, and Force India Beam wing is molded into the Crash structure.

[Remote_Access]

Maybe we can stop the tripe being poured into these car threads from people who are doing nothing more than trying to reassure themselves that everything will be OK? This tripe manifests itself for page after page, but when I turn up we've suddenly gone off topic all of a sudden, it's all my doing and all my fault.

The truth is what it is and it hurts I'm afraid, but moaning about other people pointing it out won't help. Making it personal won't help either. I probably like Ferrari less than Mercedes, but nevertheless you can't deny that they look in pretty competent shape. Mercedes, put simply, don't. There it is.

If you want to discuss the car then do it (not that there's much to discuss), but don't start blaming people when they call out the bull.

No-one's blaming you for calling out "the bull" (possible freudian slip in reference to your Red Bull bias?) but they are certainly blaming you for how you go about it.

The idea that Mercedes is in trouble is entirely rational and any impartial observer could easily come to that conclusion. It is possible that they deliberately went for a test-bed approach, contrary to established wisdom, to allow more time to develop fancy bits while they bedded down the core systems of the car. However, it is therefore highly likely they will not have sufficient time to test and develop those fancy bits anyway, and will therefore end up behind the eight-ball.

It is also possible that Mercedes have severe managerial issues. Anyone with a basic knowledge of Org Behaviour could tell you that this may be due to multiple reasons, many of which could be caused by the flux at Honda/Brawn/Mercedes over the last few years. For instance, new leadership, new ownership, changes of staff, introduction of new staff, and new lines of reporting/communication relationships could be wreaking absolute havoc on the culture, moral and effectiveness of the team, although it is impossible to know from the outside. The "machine" that is the team may simply not be working yet, although this may have nothing to do with the competence of any individuals or the resources available.

In those two paragraphs I have essentially agreed, reinforced, and clarified your own positions on MGP that you bleat on about. Yet I hope people see it as a constructive addition to the thread, rather than serving any antagonistic purpose.

[Remote_Access]

The thing about these car threads that NOBODY here is getting, is that they were never meant to be places to air your opinions on every aspect of the team.

I disagree. The threads allow people to "get inside" the development of the car and this often requires discussion around the fundamental inputs to that development. We are seeing features (or lack of features) on this car that are hard to explain purely technically, and so we branch out into more peripheral aspects that are just as important as a wind tunnel or CAD program.

The issue has not been 'what' is posted but 'how' it is posted - see my last post above. With a climate of disrespect and narcissism (or just plain old trolling), the threads are becoming nasty behemoths that add very little value.

Stop talking about what is around the car, and get to the car. If you are unsure if your post is not related to the car specifically, DON'T POST AT ALL.

I'm afraid it would be a very plain and dry thread if everyone followed your rule, and people would be less interested and less inclined to contribute, therefore nullifying its purpose.

Re the car: It is interesting to see the reports of the long-run laptimes, especially from Schumacher. The actual, raw performance appears to contradict the idea that MGP is in terrible shape. I think that despite MGP's possibly problematic approach, if this is the strong base they build on, they could be in for a strong year.

[Ferraripilot]

The idea that Mercedes is in trouble is entirely rational and any impartial observer could easily come to that conclusion. It is possible that they deliberately went for a test-bed approach, contrary to established wisdom, to allow more time to develop fancy bits while they bedded down the core systems of the car.



The above is precisely what they did. I have zero doubt in my mind that is their approach. It's very different and I suspect it might just be the sandbagging method of the future. They could either be genius, or completely mental. I like to believe at this point that are right where they want to me.

[pipex]

A little comparison with the top of the rear part of the floor between Merc and RB. The simplest exhaust solution that Red Bull used in the tests... Merc exhaust points a little bit outwards, but the RB points straight to the rear


Merc needs more of that magic black bodywork stuff the RB has

[Morteza]

Take a look at what our beloved Norbert( ) has told Auto Motor und Sport :
http://www.f1.co.uk/read-news/1190/haug ... prise-you/

[JohnsonsEvilTwin]

Looking at this photo, you can see where Mercedes could cut the pods. There is at least 10 cms worth of side pod that doesnt need to be there, the angle of the exhaust gives you an indication as to what Mercedes may try.
The question really should be how much can the cut?

Another tell tale give away, is the lack of a fully developed side fence to manipulate the airflow. The only team without a side fence....

[Richard]

The thing about these car threads that NOBODY here is getting, is that they were never meant to be places to air your opinions on every aspect of the team.

The idea, the core concept, the raison d'être, the meat and potatoes, is that these threads are here to talk about parts of the car, the car concept, the new parts getting put on, if they seem to be working or not, etc.

All this talk about MGP and opinions about how they report to Dailmer and Haug being a windbag etc etc is all so trivial and counter productive to these threads.

I wish they all looked like BAR555 posts. Succinct, clear, and showing parts of the car, usually in comparison to last year.

Stop talking about what is around the car, and get to the car. If you are unsure if your post is not related to the car specifically, DON'T POST AT ALL.

Well said

[JohnsonsEvilTwin]

Thread is Mercedes W02

Car related. Well said or no , lets focus on this thing.

Look at the left side pod and the amount of Carbon Fibre overflow, its almost blatantly obvious what Mercedes have done.
It looks so overweight in the sidepods that I thought it may have been conceptually so, what with the short wheelbase and all.

But as I, Raptor and Marcush have already said...the gain in aero if that portion is cut away and used effectively to manipulate airflow onto the beam wing or over the top of the diffuser, will be tremendous.
Brawn:"We arent looking at performance, but we are happy with our postion(on their lack of apparent race pace)as we are focuisng on mileage with KERS and tyres.
Our numbers indicate a sizeable gain once the updates are added, but we dont know what the others are doing".

[Mandrake]

Look at the left side pod and the amount of Carbon Fibre overflow, its almost blatantly obvious what Mercedes have done.
It looks so overweight in the sidepods that I thought it may have been conceptually so, what with the short wheelbase and all.

When I saw those wheelbase comparisons for the first time I asked myself why mercedes went the short wheelbase route since the longer RedBull can use the extended base to improve packaging and opening of the rear end.

However now in light of a possible undercut sidepod the result would be stunning. Compared to the ToroRosso the W02 rear is so tight, I wonder how they'll package the whole thing. If it turns out to be working I think we have a strong contender this year.

[JohnsonsEvilTwin]

When I saw those wheelbase comparisons for the first time I asked myself why mercedes went the short wheelbase route since the longer RedBull can use the extended base to improve packaging and opening of the rear end.

However now in light of a possible undercut sidepod the result would be stunning. Compared to the ToroRosso the W02 rear is so tight, I wonder how they'll package the whole thing. If it turns out to be working I think we have a strong contender this year.

I know its early days regards testing, but the Mercedes W02 also had consistently the highest top speeds of the recent test.
My thinking is with this theoretical cut in the side pod, the air would have an easier route to travel, and a higher speed would be attainable.
If Mercedes had the extra 4/5kmh in hand with this(theoretical) update, they could even add more wing to aid front down force, helping with the cars understeer.

[Ferraripilot]

didn't Mclaren and ForceIndia have the highest top speeds last year?

[-o< oh please let this car be a winner

[HampusA]

It all comes down to the seventh gear in 2011.

Do you make it so you top out seventh without rear wing and KERS?
Do you make it so you top out with rear wing in mind etc?

I think this will be one of the most interesting parts of the season.

[pipex]

I was thinking what if Merc is trying to blow over the diffuser with the double floor style sidepods and the beam wing with some clever exhaust positioning? could this be possible? for example, placing the exhaust just over the current location, could this work?