Pirelli Strategy 2011

[ringo]

I wonder if saving the tyres make sense?
Going full bore and doing an extra pit stop may be feasible.
Looking at the drop off in lap time should give an idea, but then we would have to consider which compounds are being used.

What the drivers are saying is that the balance changes from under to oversteer as the tyre go and is the biggest factor in lap time more so than degradation.
It still looks like drivers who can adapt more will be able to gun it the whole race provided they can keep the car on the road.

[Just_a_fan]

It still looks like drivers who can adapt more will be able to gun it the whole race provided they can keep the car on the road.

Button isn't going to like that one little bit then...

[ubrben]

Trulli's comments sound lile the front takes longer to come up to temp than the rears giving understeer, then when the front comes in the Rear drops, probably the easiest "problem" to have with a rwd car.

Ben

[vall]

I was sure there was the topic about 2011 tire/rage strategies, but I could not find it and so I open a new one.

Mods: if there is an appropriate tread buried somewhere, please delete this one.

With the Pirelli tires degrading so quickly, we should regularly see 4-stop strategies. With 24 cars, it is going to be very busy in the boxes. It is going to be interesting.

[WhiteBlue]

AMuS reveals this news on their life ticker. Is Pirelli thinking about dropping the extra soft later? The development test at Malaysia could point in that direction.

[raymondu999]

here's the news: http://f1.madeinmotorsport.com/en/headl ... 20121.html

[strad]

Multiple tire stops will just take us back to where we didn't want to be...

Formula 1 drivers have told the FIA that they want Pirelli to "react" to the degradation issues that have been prevalent throughout winter testing, but have also vowed to do everything they can to help the Italian tire manufacturer improve the situation.
During a meeting between representatives of the Grand Prix Drivers' Association and F1 race director Charlie Whiting in Barcelona on Wednesday night to discuss a number of issues – including the movable rear wing rules – lengthy discussion was given over to the early experience of Pirelli rubber.

According to sources at the meeting, a number of drivers expressed their concerns about the implications of the high degradation seen in early running of Pirelli's new rubber – and the impact that that could have on the way grand prix weekends pan out. But rather than being most fearful about what it means for the racing, the drivers were more worried about how the big drop-off in performance would limit the amount of running drivers could do in practice.

"We expressed our view about the tire situation, and the tire degradation, because the degradation is not only the fact that you will be five seconds slower after 10 or 15 laps, it is the fact that in some way, it also prevents us from running," Team Lotus driver Jarno Trulli told AUTOSPORT. "We would like to run more and if we have tire degradation after three or five laps then it is hard for us to work – and also to run.

"That is why the FIA reacted this week with having an [option for an] extra tire set on Friday, and this is already a good step. We are working pretty well together – the drivers, the FIA, Charlie – and I am sure Pirelli as well will catch up. But for sure, everyone is a little concerned at the moment."

Although some drivers have been openly critical of Pirelli's tires so far, Trulli made it clear that the GPDA was eager to work with Pirelli to make the situation better.

"We are not disappointed, we are only pointing out that degradation is high. What I said – and it is largely shared by everyone in the paddock – is that Pirelli has lacked a little bit of experience in F1. But the fact that now we are going to test for them during the season a few times can only be good for us and good for them. I am sure they will catch up, but at the moment, we will have to deal with a lot of degradation – and we will not have less than three stops during the races.

"I really think they [Pirelli] will react to what we have at the moment. We want to have a better situation and Pirelli can do it – they have the tools and they probably can react quite quickly."

He added: "We are not here to criticize Pirelli because they are supplying tires and doing a good job. But we think they can do a better job. If we give them a bit of time and some extra help during the beginning of the season we can quickly react from the experience of everyone so maybe after a few races we can have a better situation with the tires."

Pirelli motorsport director Paul Hembery has acknowledged that the company wants to learn as much as it can during its first year back in F1 – which is why it had been pushing hard for the use of extra "experimental" tires in Friday practice.

Speaking earlier this week, he said: "We are humble enough to say that if we need to learn with the sport, then we might need to make some changes. So [the extra Friday tires] was all part of putting a mechanism in place before the start of the season so we did not have the arguing with all the teams mid-season saying we want to test on a Monday, we need a midseason test session, which will prove to be impossible."

As well as the discussion with Whiting about tires, the drivers also talked through their experiences of the moveable rear wing. And although there appeared to be no major safety worries about the use of the system, a number of drivers, including Sebastian Vettel, did discuss issues they have about the unlimited use of the wing throughout practice and qualifying, and the fact that in races there were now too many buttons and cockpit lights for them to look out for.

"The difficulty is, if you have [the movable wing] in the race and you don't have it in qualifying, for example, then you will have different gear ratios and that will potentially destroy the effect of the wing in the race," Vettel told AUTOSPORT. "On the other hand, if it is free to use whenever you want, where's the upside in practice and qualifying?

"Last year we had an F-duct that we could use whenever we wanted; this year we have the wing we can use whenever we want in practice and qualifying. The question is whether we can improve that and do something smart in order to be safer."

Trulli added: "I think more or less everyone agrees that the rear wing has not proved to be unsafe, so that is good news. But the way we use the wing together with those guys who use KERS, this might be a concern in the way that the driver is sometimes a bit too busy watching lights, buttons and stuff like that rather than watching ahead. So several drivers expressed their view and we discussed about it – and it is now down to the teams to say we can trim this rule and have a better solution and do what we have.

"At the moment, nothing has been said and nothing has been fixed. Charlie will think about it, the teams will go through it with Charlie and if they can improve it and they think it is not a perfect solution they will change it. Otherwise we stick like this."

Trulli said he was upbeat about the way the discussions between the GPDA and the FIA had gone, and was hopeful it would lead to improved rules in the near future.

"It is quite a good attitude from both sides because we didn't go there to criticize – we went there to just discuss about the experience we have had during the winter time with the new rules and what can be improved. It was nothing more than that."

[WhiteBlue]

Multiple tire stops will just take us back to where we didn't want to be...

+1 unfortunately FOTA and FOM still believe firmly in an artificially spiced up "show"

[n_anirudh]

Well pirelli now have both friday sessions to test their tires and also the GP2 cars running. How much "common" (in the sense of wear rates, time for carcass to heat up) info can Pirelli extract from GP2 cars and get a feedback onto F1?

Would Pirelli be actually reluctant to respond to drivers' call to make tires more durable?

[raymondu999]

Are they going to actually change the compound in the middle of the year though? Or are they gathering feedback for 2012 tyres? That would seem rather unfair to me

[WhiteBlue]

Yesterday Seb Vettel spent 90 minutes with AMuS reporters watching the competitors. This was his commment on the Pirellis:

When you are running used tyres, the line is forced upon you by the grip. You are constantly adapting. The lap times are the same or slightly slower. That does not mean, however hat the tyre stays the same. If that was the case, you would become quicker because every lap you burn fuel.

An adjustable front wing would be good now. You could react to the tyre degradation from the cockpit. All you can do now is adapting your driving style. You have to figure in the loss of grip when you attack a corner and adapt the racing line accordingly. Some driver may be a little better at this than the others.

With over steer you have a real problem. Just have a look at the many rubber scraps right and left. The racing line is practically immured. If you come on the dirt, off you go.

As the other drivers say the main problem isn't degradation but the loss of balance that happens with the rear tyre degradation. The better drivers will be those that can drive different styles and anticipate the grip level correctly to adjust their driving style to the imbalance. Sounds very tricky.

[Ciro Pabón]

I only hope this issue makes clear to fans that artificial difficulties are HORRIBLE for racing.

Every time a member starts to say that they want cars with stick shift transmission or (excuse me) stupid things like that, I protest, but they come and come and come...
`
Look, guys, you race on the wheels. The rest of the car is merely a way for you to connect to them, tyres. Having to race on bad tyres is HORRIBLE. You feel like running in high heels.

I also hope that Pirelli realizes that this cannot be good for their brand. Let's hope that someone says to some Pirelli honcho one day this: "Pirelli? Ain't those the chalk tyres that doesn't last? I don't want them in my car".

This year we're going to have "poker racing". You won't show your cards for fear of them disappearing. EVERYBODY is going to sit on the best racing line for ages, hoping for the person in front to wear his rubber.



Just picture the race: it starts and after 15 laps everybody changes tyres. Then Hamonso falls to fourth, Barriwebber goes to first. After 30 laps nobody is sure where is everybody in terms of tyres. Maybe Pérebutton is first, but who cares? He did that by not wearing his tyres during qualy and extending his stint for three laps more. You find that unfair, you get bored, go for a sammich and play WII. You come back when there are only ten laps to go, only moment in the race when you had a slight idea of whose position is true and veritable.

Let's hope I'm mistaken (but I never am!).

[WhiteBlue]

Finally another issue I can agree on with Ciro. Artificial pit stops, artificial rain, reversed grids, short cuts and all the nonsense needs to be deleted from the discussions ASAP. All they have to do is limit the downforce to 1982 level and stop Bernie to tell Tilke to make all this slow corners. They are only there to make the on car sponsors more visible and they hurt the racing.

[McG]

Horrible tyres. They are giving up grip too soon and making the cars dangerous, was it Hamilton that said it's down to the canvas sometimes? I'm woried it might be like Ralph Schumacher crashing is Indy. Just not reading any solid reports.

Surely you can have a tyre that will keep in a safe operating zone but the times will fall off?

Also i read that Pirelli will be testing at some tracks, in conjunction with the FIA. I don't trust that approach, make a good few tyre compounds that last with the driver still being able to race, rather than slow down dramatically and leave the teams with them.

Don't want the tyres being secretly developed for a specific "fairytail" championship like 09, they bloody love that.

[ringo]

I remember before the pirellis came.
Everyone wanted tyres that degrade so badly. " Candad 2010 every race!!"
"it will improve racing", " the best drivers will nurse the tyres and use their brains" yadda yadda. All clap trap.

They have what they asked for and now everyone wants the ifinite life tyres again.

The racing will be crap. Nothing but playing musical chairs with the tyres and pitlane.

Qualifying will be most interesting and unfair to the fast teams. Too fast to waste a soft tyre in Q1, but yet not fast enough not to take the risk of using hard tyres that will set you back 3 seconds and in the HRT range.
Notice no team is talking about quali strategy.