Comparison of all 2011 cars

[ESPImperium]

The problem with the McLarens is that they historically since Senna left them, is they have never hade a great rear end, Coulthard said it of his time with McLaren (even with Newey) and others have said so as well; Kimi, Montoya and Alonso from their previous teams.

I think that Button has tried to develop the rear end more, but still has to do some work with the mechanichal and aero guys by getting them under the same impression of what is needed. It is the problem with Hamilton that i feel that he has never experinced another teams car to compair the McLarens with. If i were Ron Dennis back when Montoya quit in 2006, once the GP2 season was over, id have tried to have got Hamilton a seat with a smaller team for at least a couple races.

Good cars have a great front and rear end, instantly transfeable in feel and touch. This is where i think Ferarri and Red Bull have the edge over McLaren, their front and rear end solutions work in harmony with each other. McLarens front end battles a little more with the rear end, the front wants to turn, the rear wants to do a little more the other. Hence the McLaren has entry understeer and exit oversteer to my eye from the 2010 cars.

I have a feeling that McLaren will be working on the mechanichal setup of the car and its behaviour this year. Getting it more direct and better under traction as braking has always been a McLaren strength.

[Caerdroia]

No homologation for 2011 means everything is up for copying....some more easily than others.

The things that were homologated in 2010 are still homologated in 2011.

[raymondu999]

I was under the impression that there was something that was no longer homologated. But I can't remember what that is.

[Caerdroia]

I've read it a couple of times on this forum that the chassis is no longer homologated but it's not true.

[raymondu999]

I'm not saying you're lying or anything, but do you have a source? (I'm not being skeptic, just like to verify against an official document)

[Caerdroia]

http://www.fia.com/resources/documents/ ... mework.pdf

Just to quote the relevant bit to save you downloading/reading the whole thing:

In this respect the new regulations will mandate:

...

• Annual homologation of chassis and main suspension elements

[raymondu999]

Gotcha. Thanks

[Adamski]

More infos about Homologation in 2011:

Homologation is a proven and accepted mechanism for controlling costs. The FIA propose the following homologation with respect to the chassis and bodywork from 2011 onwards:
• The main chassis, all bodywork, cooling ducts, radiators and major suspension
parts will be will be homologated annually from December of the preceding year
for the major parts and then frozen from 1st March prior to each season.

From the official Formula One 2011 Chassis Regulation Framework

[mep]

Based on those pics I was trying to compute approx. car wheelbases (in mm):

Ok some guys have already spent some time to figure out the differences. Seems it’s around 200mm shorter than the RedBull. The car to beat, the rest doesn’t count much. Well maybe Ferrari does too.

Ok what effects could it have?
Some say you get more downforce because you have a longer floor. Maybe yes but maybe not. The flow under the floor could be more difficult to follow such a trivial rule of thumb. One said drag would be reduced. I really doubt this because skin friction is very low. Then some said flow to the rearwing is better when you have a longer wheelbase. Depends where you put your extra length. When I compare it to the Redbull it seems like the indeed put it in front of the rear wheels.

Regarding the weight transfer.
Maybe it’s a reaction to the fix of weight balance. What was the exact figure for it again? Well it is kind of randomly chosen and might not represent the optimum weight balance. So having a shorter wheelbase with more weight transfer can reduce the effect of a wrong static weight balance. I read once that Mercedes W01 was good in high speed corners but bad in slow ones. So the reduced wheelbase might be a way to improve the car in slow corners.

[Shaddock]

Worth reading re wheelbase:

"Toyota say their new car is significantly different to its predecessor, as a result of the team’s continuous search for improvement, as well as regulation changes. In addition to a longer wheelbase, the TF108 boasts a distinctive new aerodynamic concept and advanced suspension lay-outs.

“The main reason for making the wheelbase longer is to achieve more stability, but secondly we also expect greater aerodynamic development potential, giving our aerodynamicists wider surfaces and more space to play with,” explained Pascal Vasselon, the team’s senior general manager (chassis)" http://www.formula1.com/news/headlines/2008/1/7246.html

Scarbsf1's Blog

"Then there’s aerodynamics, probably more important than layout as tenths gained from aero are easier to reap than with tyre usage. Teams will want to create space for the airflow to twist and turn in order to get the downforce figures the designers are chasing. Often this has lead to long wheelbases as the designers want space between the front wheels and sidepods for bigger bargeboards, or space between the engine and rear wheels for a slimmer coke bottle shape" http://scarbsf1.wordpress.com/2010/02/1 ... important/

[Mchamilton]

I was trying to compare the cars aligned by their center. Resampled by wheel size but they are shot from different angles so not perfect.

Looking for better pictures, then I will try to do better job after Barcelona.

look the rake on the RB7 front wing! that is madness

[Mchamilton]

I touched up your initial image, myurr. I hope you don't mind.

i cant create the image for this so bare with me. the cars a lined up on the rear wheel centre line.
draw a comparison line down from the most rearward point of Button's helmet in the Mclaren.
the ferrari driver sits a fair distance further forward than the mclaren driver, just shy of equal to the difference in wheelbase. therefore to my understanding they should have an equal amount of space for packaging.
the red bull driver sit very slightly forward of the mclaren driver. this, as well as the extra wheelbase gives the red bull a larger capacity for packaging, which is a significant reason for the way the bodywork is able to slope away progressively, which leads to increased volume of air over the beam wing and diffuser.

[marcush.]

sport-auto mag in Germany specified a spread in wheelbase of 270mm for Mercedes with the shortest car and Mclaren with the longest.so how does this compare to the numbers we have derived yet?

[Lindz]

I touched up your initial image, myurr. I hope you don't mind.

image

i cant create the image for this so bare with me. the cars a lined up on the rear wheel centre line.
draw a comparison line down from the most rearward point of Button's helmet in the Mclaren.
the ferrari driver sits a fair distance further forward than the mclaren driver, just shy of equal to the difference in wheelbase. therefore to my understanding they should have an equal amount of space for packaging.
the red bull driver sit very slightly forward of the mclaren driver. this, as well as the extra wheelbase gives the red bull a larger capacity for packaging, which is a significant reason for the way the bodywork is able to slope away progressively, which leads to increased volume of air over the beam wing and diffuser.

Right, but the image you're looking at for these comparisons has a few cars scaled wrongly. The Red Bull in particular is much too large in that picture.

The Williams has the longest wheelbase, with McLaren 2nd. The Mercedes is the shortest by far, and RB and Ferrari are just in the middle (which, to me, makes their packaging acheivements even more outstanding).

[raymondu999]

That's a question that I've always mused about. The FW33's arse ends well before the rear wing. To me it just looks like they made a car with a good rear end with a short wheel base, but then thought they wanted to make it look more impressive by simply moving the rear axle further rearwards, while leaving the sidepods and engine covers as they are. Can someone around here enlighten this poor fellow with no knowledge of aero (other than downforce squares with speed, what downforce/drag is, of course )