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It doesn't surprise me at all. I guess it's an example of why so many tyre places are so bad - the people handing over money don't give a stuff.mcdenife wrote:I 'd say the very vast majority of people (at least in western countries)do not look at the published tyre test data when buying tyre. So bhallg2k is right, for most people the tyres on their cars are of no consequence (unless you race). I have 2 cars and cant tell you what brand of tyres are on them even though I bought them myself and just as further proof I have just emailed a straw poll or questionaire around my company to find out how many people can tell what brand of tyre is on their car without looking. And the answer........not one. (btw the company has 1000s of employees across europe).
IMHO - replacement brake disc´s/pad and shockabsorbers/dampersJust_a_fan wrote: Is there any other saftey-related item that people buy without thinking about it?
So as you see, it takes time, even for the best, to adapt to a new challenge.Autosport wrote: "I think there will be an issue with punctures this year," said Black. "The sidewalls on the gravel tyre are not as strong as the Pirellis were last year and that's generally where you get punctures. We were also disappointed to get punctures coming through the tread of the tyre in testing."
A Michelin spokesman said the firm had completed two seasons' worth of mileage without a significant number of failures.
"We are not worried," he said. "We know our tyres, we know what development has gone into them and we are sure of their performance.
"On the other hand, this is our return to rally after five years, so we have to learn and we are very humble as we look to improve. Yes, we are good at producing tyres, but we are not God."
full article here: http://www.autosport.com/news/report.php/id/89534
Its not bought without though, its about practicality, and use. The vast majority of people certainly dont buy tyres for performance reasons and depending on test parameters/data or how you define "safe" you would be hard pushed to show that a road bridgestone tyre is more or less safe than a pirelli, michelin, continental, dunlop, goodyear etc...take your pick. Especially when the data mostly available say things like %wet grip or %dry grip etc and even so you would have to be queer indeed to want to peruse reams and reams of data for the different types of tyres of different specs from different manufacturers (not that I ve seen ever seen any info in their product docs on "braking performance") just to reduce your braking distance by 0.5μm wet and 0.05μm dry. No thanks, I go with what the manufacturer recommend regarding specification and what the garage recommnends depending price, durability, guarantee.Just_a_fan wrote:Is there any other saftey-related item that people buy without thinking about it?
Ah yes. True enough.747heavy wrote:IMHO - replacement brake disc´s/pad and shockabsorbers/dampersJust_a_fan wrote: Is there any other saftey-related item that people buy without thinking about it?
Avon make road car tyres too but no idea of the relative % of race / road tyres.There are probably some (relative) small companies such as Avon and Hoosier etc. who do racing tires for a living, but the majory of the OEM´s will make their money elsewhere.
from the French this is positively humble!"Yes, we are good at producing tyres, but we are not God."
Hear hear. The proof will be whether we all look back at the season and say "wow, great season" or "wow, the season was ruined by Pirelli". So long as there is plenty of to-and-fro in the racing over the season we won't care too much. If tyres determine a result it will be as much down to the car and driver's ability to use those tyres as it will be the tyres' fault. Indeed, with a single supplier, the tyre can't really be seen as at fault if a certain car fails to succeed.So as you see, it takes time, even for the best, to adapt to a new challenge. Let´s give Pirelli some credit, and see what they come up with for this season. Rome was not build in a day, and you have to start somewhere.
If someone just says to the garage "put me two new tyres on" then that's "bought without thought" in my book.mcdenife wrote:Its not bought without though, its about practicality, and use.
"Safe" is difficult to define. My take on it is how well they brake in both wet and dry conditions. Very few people use close to the lateral grip limit of their tyres but they will almost certainly have to "slam on the anchors" at some point.The vast majority of people certainly dont buy tyres for performance reasons and depending on test parameters/data or how you define "safe" you would be hard pushed to show that a road bridgestone tyre is more or less safe than a pirelli, michelin, continental, dunlop, goodyear etc...take your pick.
There are a number of magazine tests done that report performance in terms of "distance to stop in metres" from given speeds in wet and dry conditions. These are then easy to compare. It's eye-opening how badly some of the cheap stuff does in these comparisons.Especially when the data mostly available say things like %wet grip or %dry grip etc and even so you would have to be queer indeed to want to peruse reams and reams of data for the different types of tyres of different specs from different manufacturers (not that I ve seen ever seen any info in their product docs on "braking performance") just to reduce your braking distance by 0.5μm wet and 0.05μm dry.
Taking the car manufacturer's recommendations is fine because that's what the car is effectively homologated on. As for garages, I've yet to find one who know any more about it than a well-read punter does. Durability tends to be inversely proportional to ultimate grip so if you want a long life tyre you'll be sacrificing some performance elsewhere.No thanks, I go with what the manufacturer recommend regarding specification and what the garage recommnends depending price, durability, guarantee.
You're kidding right? You Gotta Be Kidding!No thanks, I go with what the manufacturer recommend regarding specification and what the garage recommnends depending price, durability, guarantee
Kidding about what? That I am not anal about choosing road tyres for my car?strad wrote:I have not found a tire that works better all round on my SVT Cobra than the Pirelli PZero Nero.
mcdenife wrote:You're kidding right? You Gotta Be Kidding!No thanks, I go with what the manufacturer recommend regarding specification and what the garage recommnends depending price, durability, guarantee
I'd hate to sound rude, but that's a pretty poor way to choose which tyre suits your road car the best. Most buyers are intelligent enough to at least fit the tyres the manufacturer recommends and after that a well known brand of the correct fitment. More sophisticated buyers may have tried different tyres and have learned to have a preference to suit their style. Perhaps if your car is a shopping trolley you will let price be a main driver. But really I doubt that many people will watch a race and decide Pirellis don't work because they only happen to last a few miles.G-Rock wrote:It's been interesting to note that the massive differences in tire degration, grip and overall consistancy may reflect badly on a potential Pirelli's buyers decisions to purchase a road tire. It would for me.
That's what you say, Prudence...Agenda_Is_Incorrect wrote:Don't know if you are referring to me as a sock puppet of someone or the contrary Ciro, but I'm not. At least not me.
(sorry, sorry, it's just a joke. Not a very good one, but...).
I can tell this again: the difference in how worn your tyres are, influences your car behaviour far more than the brand. Waaaaay more, Prudence. And stop using so many nicks, you're confusing me... now you are posting using RH account.The Fifth Gear TV program performed a graphic demonstration of the problem by equipping two cars with different tyres. The lead car had 3mm of tread left, the trailing car had 1.6mm. The cars were driven at 50mph at a distance of 3 car lengths apart - not safe, but representative of the real-world. When the lead driver performed an emergency stop, the trailing driver reacted nearly instantly, but despite years of training and an ABS-equipped car, he slammed into the lead vehicle still doing 35mph.
