Is McLaren really off the pace?

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RAF
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Re: Is McLaren really off the pace?

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I would have thought the same at first, that Hamilton would suffer more due to his driving style, but now I think about it more I think that Button could suffer more. Button requires a car to be stable under braking to be quick, which could be a problem with tyres that wear so quickly.

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747heavy
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Re: Is McLaren really off the pace?

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CHT wrote:
Giblet wrote:What I am trying to get at is that lack of testing is really hurting the sport. Teams need to be able to play catch up during the season so they can figure out their car, and give drivers much needed mileage.
Then again, if teams are allowed to do unlimited testing, then the rich team like Ferrari and Mclaren will always dominate the sports because they have more resources for testing. Wont that hurt the sport as well?
Now "rich" teams will dominate by building better and more expensive simulators than anybody else.
While free private testing is/was one extreme to force people to spend millions of dollars in simulatots is the other - IMHO.
Some controled in season testing ala Moto GP or other categories could be a sensible cost effective compromise for F1 - IMHO.

At the end of the day, it´s really difficult to stop people from spending money, which they have.
You can move the area where to spend the money around a bit, and thereby maybe sway the odds for one team or the other, but sooner or later there will be another "arms race" somewhere.

private test tracks/testing --> wind tunnels --> CFD software & computers --> and now simulator technology.

Some offical tests during the season, could achieve a lot more for the average fan then another round of the arms race behind closed doors - IMHO.
Some offical test days during the season every 3 month after the races could be nicely combined with F1 in Schools (free attendance for school classes for example), and would not break the bank either - IMHO

If they can´t spend it on the car, they will spend it in catering & hospitality suites, or other areas to make sponsors happy.
See the DTM aka the "German Catering Championship".

F1 will never be a "poor mens/teams sport", nor do I think it should be.
Last edited by 747heavy on 27 Feb 2011, 00:28, edited 1 time in total.
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Jersey Tom
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Re: Is McLaren really off the pace?

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...this is why capped budgets are a must.
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raymondu999
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Re: Is McLaren really off the pace?

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Isn't there talk already of reviving Mosley's plan?
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Tamburello
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Re: Is McLaren really off the pace?

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RAF wrote:I would have thought the same at first, that Hamilton would suffer more due to his driving style, but now I think about it more I think that Button could suffer more. Button requires a car to be stable under braking to be quick, which could be a problem with tyres that wear so quickly.
and yet Button has been on record saying he likes the tyres whilst Hamilton has been whining about them at every opportunity...

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JohnsonsEvilTwin
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Re: Is McLaren really off the pace?

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Regardless of what the driver says, we will have to wait and see how it pans out.
If you look at the Red Bull situation, I think it will be interesting how Vettel copes with Webber, as Vettel is harder on their car. Similar to Mclarens situation.

Just depends how the team and drivers react to the situation. Personally, Im of the opinion a good driver will still be a good driver regardless of the tyres.
More could have been done.
David Purley

Tamburello
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Re: Is McLaren really off the pace?

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All Hamilton has known in his F1 thus far is sprint racing, i.e. use each stint on set of tyres to go as hard as possible with the car getting faster and faster with each lap, and seems to think that's the only form of racing F1 is about.

It will be different this year, as the driver who can preserve his tyres better than rivals will see the checkered flag first...

Alge7a
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Re: Is McLaren really off the pace?

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Tumbarello wrote:All Hamilton has known in his F1 thus far is sprint racing, i.e. use each stint on set of tyres to go as hard as possible with the car getting faster and faster with each lap, and seems to think that's the only form of racing F1 is about.

It will be different this year, as the driver who can preserve his tyres better than rivals will see the checkered flag first...
I'm not sure I totally agree with this comment. Hamilton last year started to show signs of tyre management in a way I've not seen in him before. If you remember Canada for example.

Florio
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Re: Is McLaren really off the pace?

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Tumbarello wrote:All Hamilton has known in his F1 thus far is sprint racing, i.e. use each stint on set of tyres to go as hard as possible with the car getting faster and faster with each lap, and seems to think that's the only form of racing F1 is about.

It will be different this year, as the driver who can preserve his tyres better than rivals will see the checkered flag first...
His tyre management at Canada was brilliant, better than Buttons I believe. I think the only time he mucked up the tyre management was Brazil.

Tamburello
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Re: Is McLaren really off the pace?

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Alge7a wrote:
Tumbarello wrote:All Hamilton has known in his F1 thus far is sprint racing, i.e. use each stint on set of tyres to go as hard as possible with the car getting faster and faster with each lap, and seems to think that's the only form of racing F1 is about.

It will be different this year, as the driver who can preserve his tyres better than rivals will see the checkered flag first...
I'm not sure I totally agree with this comment. Hamilton last year started to show signs of tyre management in a way I've not seen in him before. If you remember Canada for example.
Well that is his complaint from his own mouth, that instead of trying to push hard as he likes to do and as he has been used to with the Bridgestone tyres, the Pirellis are are all about tyre management.

I'm not saying he isn't capable of adapting just that he doesn't like the characteristics of the tyre whereas Button has stated that he finds them easy to get a handle on.

As to Canada last year, I think Hamilton's victory could have been a mixture of 'clever' quali strategy, good driving, some luck out on track, and possibly cock-ups in strategy from rivals, rather than outright pace...

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ringo
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Re: Is McLaren really off the pace?

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His tyre management is not an issue. Finishing before your teammate is enough proof of better tyre management.
Hamilton has no tyre usage issues. If anything Button will be in more problems. There are more than 3 instances last year where he burned out the rears during the race.
the best drivers always adapt, Hamilton wont be a burden for the team when it comes to tyre strategy.
Button on the other hand will be a problem for setup, since the balance will change from under to oversteer when the tyres go off, plus there's no adjustable front wing to tune the balance.

THE BOSS has no issues with adapting, complaining about something doesn't mean you can't buckle down and put in submission.
Button said he like the tyres long before he did any serious running with them. As soon as he did the car had no balance. :lol:

2010 was suppose to reveal Hamilton's tyre wear weakness, i guess 2011 will. :roll:

If anything Hamilton will be making full use of KERS experience and overtaking skills to save face for this ugly moose of a car.
For Sure!!

Sean H
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Re: Is McLaren really off the pace?

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my guess is that they are in good position to repeat their 4th and 5th place spots in the championship... well done Macca.
"The car is slow in the straights and doesn't work well in the corners." JV

lolzi
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Re: Is McLaren really off the pace?

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ringo wrote:His tyre management is not an issue. Finishing before your teammate is enough proof of better tyre management.
Hamilton has no tyre usage issues. If anything Button will be in more problems. There are more than 3 instances last year where he burned out the rears during the race.
the best drivers always adapt, Hamilton wont be a burden for the team when it comes to tyre strategy.
Button on the other hand will be a problem for setup, since the balance will change from under to oversteer when the tyres go off, plus there's no adjustable front wing to tune the balance.

THE BOSS has no issues with adapting, complaining about something doesn't mean you can't buckle down and put in submission.
Button said he like the tyres long before he did any serious running with them. As soon as he did the car had no balance. :lol:

2010 was suppose to reveal Hamilton's tyre wear weakness, i guess 2011 will. :roll:

If anything Hamilton will be making full use of KERS experience and overtaking skills to save face for this ugly moose of a car.
Yeah, Hamilton is so good and fantastic. He's gonna win everything. Bla bla bla.

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raymondu999
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Re: Is McLaren really off the pace?

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To be fair Ringo, last year's tyres really were strong. But this year will see (I suppose) a much greater impact by tyre wear. Bearing in mind that being able to stretch each stint by 1 lap is worth a bigger percentage now than it was last year.
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raymondu999
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Re: Is McLaren really off the pace?

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Having said that, I think we'll see (if completely dry) a race that was rather like Bahrain in that everyone would settle into a rhythm of the optimum strategy, just with different pitstop timings.
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