trouble for mclaren TWO ENGINES.

Lauda · Post 10 Mar 2006, 23:36

sadly yeah...

GTO · Post 11 Mar 2006, 01:40

manchild wrote:JPM is fatter than Kimi but cars weight the same as weight is adjusted with balast.

Are you sure about this manchild? I think in Champ cars they add ballast to make all the cars + driver = same weight, but I did not think they followed this system in F1. Only cars had to weigh the same. Thus a team with a smaller driver had an weight advantage.

manchild · Post 11 Mar 2006, 10:23

In F1 there is a minimum weight of the car together with driver imposed by FIA. That is why both drivers and cars are measured after the race (separately and than added).

Not even the car with driver who has 100kg would weight close to 605 kg which is minimum (or 600, whatever). The rest of the weight is achieved by use of ballast. That is why driver that weight less gives more options for engineers do distribute ballast around the car according to handling/setup requirements.

Cars must weigh at least 605kg (including the driver) during qualifying and at least 600kg at all other times. Teams may use ballast to bring cars up to weight. This must be firmly secured to the cars. Ballast may not be removed or added during a race.

ARTICLE 4: WEIGHT
4.1 Minimum weight:
The weight of the car must not be less than 605 kg during the qualifying practice session and no less than 600 kg at all other times during the Event.
4.2 Ballast:
Ballast can be used provided it is secured in such a way that tools are required for its removal. It must be possible to fix seals if deemed necessary by the FIA technical delegate.
4.3 Adding during the race:
With the exception of fuel and compressed gases, no substance may be added to the car during the race. If it becomes necessary to replace any part of the car during the race, the new part must not weigh any more than the original part.

dumrick · Post 13 Mar 2006, 13:42

Well, people seem to get their kicks out of making impressive headlines trashing Mercedes. All winter testing has been the same also. Well, look at the championship standings: McLaren-Mercedes is FIRST, together with Renault.
Let wait how engines behave in Malasia, of course but Renault didn't get both cars to reach the end of the race, Honda had problems that got one of their cars cruising most of the race and BMW has spectacularly blown an engine in flames.

Eheh, so, where is the people mocking at BMW and making jokes about fire extinguishers?

tetopelis · Post 13 Mar 2006, 16:04

dumrick..you summed it perfectly. i was wondering the exact same thing as you..out of the four contending teams only mclaren and ferrari got both cars in trouble free. and mclaren even more so with both cars in points..i didn't see a flaming merz engine anywhere did i?..interesting interesting..next race we shall see if it holds up..if it does, i wonder what ppl would say next hmmmmm?...

dumrick · Post 13 Mar 2006, 18:25

tetopelis wrote:if it does, i wonder what ppl would say next hmmmmm?...

My guess: nothing!
They get their kicks from trashing Mercedes, just that... a blown BMW or Honda, that goes unnoticed but, when it's a Mercedes... a whole lotta people go all excited!!!!

manchild · Post 13 Mar 2006, 19:29

hehe... calm down

More Mercedes engines have blown during winter testing than what by all other teams together in 19 races. That is why people are all over Mercedes including some Mclaren fans who think that their team suffers because of bad engines suppied by Mercedes.

dumrick · Post 13 Mar 2006, 19:45

That's kind of... what testing is for?

For me a BMW engine blown in the most nicest way in front of millions of spectators, live, can be image-damaging. Not the accounting of blown engines in winter testing!

Lauda · Post 26 Mar 2006, 19:04

I think the problems are gone for mclaren especially now they have a new engine. according to de la Rosa de engine runned on 19600rpm and drove 1800km with the engine

Scuderia_Russ · Post 26 Mar 2006, 19:42

Personally I don't think McLaren have resolved their engine problems at all. They have gone from blowing up the most engines in testing (when they were said to be matching Renault for speed) to not blowing any up but finishing down the order. I reckon they are still having engine trouble and are just running them turned down so they can finish the races, which would be a very sensible strategy as they will get some points in the bag while they sort it out instead of leaving them turned right up, going balls out for wins and leaving with none.

dumrick · Post 26 Mar 2006, 20:38

How can you say that, Russ? In Bahrain, Raikonnen could have won, if the suspension hadn't fail in qualifying and Monty had software trouble. In Malaysia, McLaren really compromised performance for cooling, as could be seen from the monster cut-outs in the cars... anyway, Montoya finished fourth.
Can you realistically say that you believe that in sheer performance the Mercedes is worse than the Ferrari, BMW or Cosworth engines that we have seen blowing (pathetically in the case of the Ferrari's - 3 out of 4!:lol:)?
As I see it, it seems that Renault and Honda seem to have better engines than the rest, ok...

peroa · Post 26 Mar 2006, 21:18

Scuderia_Russ wrote:Personally I don't think McLaren have resolved their engine problems at all. They have gone from blowing up the most engines in testing (when they were said to be matching Renault for speed) to not blowing any up but finishing down the order. I reckon they are still having engine trouble and are just running them turned down so they can finish the races, which would be a very sensible strategy as they will get some points in the bag while they sort it out instead of leaving them turned right up, going balls out for wins and leaving with none.

According to all possible reports the mercedes is number 2 regarding revs, cosworth is number 1, but it didn`t last 2 races.

Ciro Pabón · Post 27 Mar 2006, 01:33

I can not resist to quote Edward Jellinek, the first Mercedes distributor in France, back in 1900, words I found in his Wikipedia biography.

"You are all donkeys"
"Your manure wagon has just broken down on schedule"
"Your engineers should be locked up in an insane asylum"
"You are completely incompetent"
"Your third-rate factory"
"You make trash"
"Is your head engineer obsolete?"
"Your car is a cocoon and I want the butterfly"

By the way, this guy invented the brand name Mercedes, after his daughter, María de las Mercedes (Mary of the Mercies) Jellinek.

jgredline · Post 27 Mar 2006, 04:26

According to all possible reports the mercedes is number 2 regarding revs, cosworth is number 1, but it didn`t last 2 races.

[/quote]

Yep I have read the same thing. These claims come primarily from Renault.
Personal I don't believe it. The Mclaren is such a good car that it can run with less wing thus apearing to have more Hp.
Cosworth will be running a new engine in Australia that reportadly will run 22000 revs in qualifing and 21000Revs during the race. They have founf the exact reason for the blow ups and have fixed them.

Scuderia_Russ · Post 27 Mar 2006, 12:08

What I am saying is that McLaren might very well have the second most powerful engine in the h.p. leagues, but if they haven't stopped it blowing up when it's running close to its maximum then they have probably turned it down for the races. Hence Montoya finishing fourth in what is supposed to be one of, if not the fastest chassis/engine combo according to many people. Raikkonen like Nico pushed his engine hard in Bahrain to finish third and because he got punted out on the first lap at Sepang, for all we know we could have missed his engine grenading on lap two!
I just don't buy it. What's Montoya's excuse for his results if the engine is so great, especially after he started to match Kimi convincingly last year.