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I can readily believe it as an emotional outburst, less so if it was more considered. But yes I can see him asking for that. He had just been stripped of pole position, and he was struggling to reconcile the fact that he was being beaten on track by Hamilton. Alonso, like most World Champions, thinks he's the best thing since sliced bread and cannot be beaten unless the odds are stacked against him. That is where his paranoia came from - he simply could not compute that anyone was capable of beating him in equal machinery and put it down to the team sabotaging his chances rather than entertain the thought that Hamilton was equalling and beating him on merit.hollus wrote:Are we really giving any credibility to someone claiming that Alonso did ask Ron Dennis to sabotage his protege from 10+ years? I am talking of the "make sure he runs out of fuel" bit in a different part of the book.
We know from his own mouth that Alonso thought that Ron Dennis (or McLaren as a whole) was favoring Hamilton over him and he has acknowledged to feeling a bit paranoid about that. The fact that he was already feeling disfavored before Monaco is what made the whole incident snowball so big.
It all sounds a bit ridiculous, IMHO.
The other way to look at it is to say:andrew wrote:Didn't think of it that way. Alonso appeared to be very much the outsider in terms of drivers by the Hungarian GP (no idea if that was of his own making or due to his team mate being a McLaren product/protege) so I imagine that Briatore would be the only one that would listen and not send him packing.
So, if you think the team (Ron) is sabotaging your chances, it makes perfect logical sense to ask Ron (the team) to sabotage your teammate instead...myurr wrote:I can readily believe it as an emotional outburst, less so if it was more considered. But yes I can see him asking for that. He had just been stripped of pole position, and he was struggling to reconcile the fact that he was being beaten on track by Hamilton. Alonso, like most World Champions, thinks he's the best thing since sliced bread and cannot be beaten unless the odds are stacked against him. That is where his paranoia came from - he simply could not compute that anyone was capable of beating him in equal machinery and put it down to the team sabotaging his chances rather than entertain the thought that Hamilton was equalling and beating him on merit.hollus wrote:Are we really giving any credibility to someone claiming that Alonso did ask Ron Dennis to sabotage his protege from 10+ years? I am talking of the "make sure he runs out of fuel" bit in a different part of the book.
We know from his own mouth that Alonso thought that Ron Dennis (or McLaren as a whole) was favoring Hamilton over him and he has acknowledged to feeling a bit paranoid about that. The fact that he was already feeling disfavored before Monaco is what made the whole incident snowball so big.
It all sounds a bit ridiculous, IMHO.
What a load of baseless pure speculation tripe. The whole situation in Macca 2007 was messed up. Macca did favor Lewis so Fernando fought back(in a crappy way, no doubt. I don' tcondone his actions.), but everybody acted childishly(Dennis, Alonso, Hamilton) all through the season.myurr wrote:The other way to look at it is to say:andrew wrote:Didn't think of it that way. Alonso appeared to be very much the outsider in terms of drivers by the Hungarian GP (no idea if that was of his own making or due to his team mate being a McLaren product/protege) so I imagine that Briatore would be the only one that would listen and not send him packing.
* Alonso was one of the central characters in 'spygate', actively discussing the information with de la Rosa.
* He knew all along about the incriminating emails.
* He hid them from his teams internal investigation, or at least did not draw attention to them.
+ He discussed them with Briatore.
+ He negotiated with Mosley so that he would receive immunity.
+ Mosley manipulated the sequence of events in order to nail McLaren and Dennis.
* He hid them from the first FIA trial.
+ Mosley conspired with this.
* He tried to blackmail Dennis into favouring him for the championship.
+ This suggests that a deal was in place with Mosley at this time to not pursue the matter yet (possibly waiting until after the season had finished so as to not harm Alonso's championship chances).
* After his blackmail attempt, Alonso again spoke to Mosley and pulled the trigger.
* McLaren received a record fine because Alonso witheld information from the team that he later gave to the FIA.
For me the *'d items are more or less uncontested (although they're subject to my presentation of them), the +'s are the contentious items that I believe have a reasonably high chance of being true but we're never likely to find out for sure.
Not all of that can be tripe as some of it forms the basis of the trial that ended with McLaren receiving a $100m fine for witholding evidence - namely Alonso's email evidence. So care to point out which bits are tripe and which are correct, or give your 100% accurate account?Pierce89 wrote:What a load of baseless pure speculation tripe. The whole situation in Macca 2007 was messed up. Macca did favor Lewis so Fernando fought back(in a crappy way, no doubt. I don' tcondone his actions.), but everybody acted childishly(Dennis, Alonso, Hamilton) all through the season.
myurr wrote: Can you also back up your suggestion that McLaren did favour Lewis? How so exactly?
... and McLaren felt they were being equal to both.Pup wrote:
I agree - let's leave it at 'Aonso felt McLaren were favoring Lewis'. It saves a lot of hyperbole from either side that way.
Probably a lot better than most people realiserichard_leeds wrote:We don't need to speculate about what Max Moseley felt, we've seen the pictures.
It's pretty obvious they were but lets not get into it. Fun though it is, it is sadly off topic.myurr wrote:Can you also back up your suggestion that McLaren did favour Lewis? How so exactly?