Mercedes GP W02

[Giblet]

Merged posts not about the car itself to the Mercedes GP 2011

[Ferraripilot]

Well the tire degradation issue is an aero issue. The car is sliding around causing the tires to die. Pirelli themselves stated this is why. Red Bull is not having as bad a problem due to them having more downforce.

[ringo]

I hope maximising the pull rod is on the list of changes. Notice that it angled too far bacwards, interrupting the flow near the beam wing. They also need to raise up the beam wing; make it a floating design like redbull and willliams. Just a few things I think can make a difference.

The problems probably start well in front of that area. The front wing is likely to be an issue and this then affects everything behind it.

I've seen suggestions that the front wing is, in effect, stalling (they appear to be struggling to keep the flow attached). Indeed, there appear to be problem with both drivers getting the nose to do what they want in to corners which suggests the thing might be struggling to stay attached as it gets closer to the ground under braking (assuming the thing gets much dive in such circumstances). This is why they had some faitly crude cut outs in the front wing at the last test. They need to run a multi-element front wing. A single flap as at present can give higher downforce in theory but it is much more difficult to keep the air flow clean. Better to run a theoretically less powerful multi-flap wing which actually works. Get that right and then you can get the airflow to the rear sorted.

Multi elements will always have more down force. The closer the wing is to the ground, the better down-force it should have.
I agree that they need to run a multi element wing, but i don't think it's because the current one is stalling. Maybe the efficiency drops considerably.
They can't be that bad at engineering, that they create a wing that stalls with one or 2 degrees of pitch.
They would have to be over estimating Reynolds numbers in the wind tunnel if that were the case.

The wing is probably an issue, but i wouldn't single it out. It's also a popular thing to say it affects everything behind it and a new one with change everything. I think that only held true back in the days when front wing designs weren't as converged as today. Most all the wings on every car on today's grid have very similar wake patterns.
The end plates are more critical to what's behind the car i believe.

Looking at the car now, it can be seen that things like the blown exhaust seem aimlessly designed. They are blowing into the floor not along it.
Then looking on the bulky roll hoop and engine cover. You have the internal channel where the radiator exhausts up and over the engine and out the back. We don't know how well this channel is designed, how the oil coolers interact with this, or whether the roll hoop should have done better with a cooling hole underneath it.

Then looking on the rear uprights, on the high and sloping upper control arm links. Why are they so high and to what effect?
Their degradation and hence overall pace could also be tied into their suspension design.

So i have a suspicion the team may have some misguidance with concepts all over the car. And it's the slightly misguided interpretations of key elements of the car that culminate into a car 1 second off the pace.

[dren]

Tire degredation didn't seem horrible on the Mercedes compared to the other teams. This seems to be a huge overstatement. The super softs run off fast, on all cars. Mercedes got better with set-ups with the other tires as the testing went on.

The car is obviously a go-between car, hence the unrefined engine exhaust, cooling exhaust exits, body covers, beam wing and front wing. I expect the suspension set-up all comes down to packaging. The design of the rear suspension should show to fit with the new body pannels and whatever exhaust solution Mercedes has.

[ringo]

anybody saw this?

But it's not just on the track that Mercedes GP are reportedly struggling as their W02's new exhaust configuration is believed to have failed the mandatory FIA crash tests.

Where the heck is the exhaust on the nose cone?

[bot6]

I believe the crash tests are not only frontal

[dren]

As well as the pace and reliability problems that Mercedes GP has suffered, there has also been speculation that the team has faced troubled passing the FIA's mandatory crash tests that it needs to do to race with a new exhaust configuration.

Mercedes-Benz motorsport boss Norbert Haug told this week's AUTOSPORT that he did not believe the team would have an issue getting those tests completed

"We will not comment on that," he said when asked if the team had passed the tests yet. "But that should not be a hurdle for us."

That was taken from an Autosport article.

[twoshots]

2. DECAY OF TIRES: The Mercedes car was one of the worst in terms of tire degradation during the long run these tests in pre stagionali.Rosberg was able to simulate the decay significantly reducing a race but the lap times were disastrous;

Hmm, not sure where you get the tyre degradation data but from what I've seen Merc have better tyre wear than both Ferrari and McLaren. They may surprise a few people this year.

Oh, and there are rear, front and lateral crash tests. I believe Merc's preferred chassis failed one of these and is being re-tested soon.

As far as I can see we are waiting for the front wing, side pods, engine/body cover, rear wing and exhausts/floor. So only simple updates then

[ringo]

I believe the crash tests are not only frontal

I wasn't literally implying that.
Either way if we look on the standard tests, it's obvious the pipes are in an unconventional position.

[bot6]

I believe the crash tests are not only frontal

I wasn't literally implying that.
Either way if we look on the standard tests, it's obvious the pipes are in an unconventional position.

Sorry mate, failed to notice the part of irony in the post.

Brawn did mention, when being questioned about the Renault exhaust, that "they're looking in the right direction".

So I think we can expect something similar on the Merc, although not fully identical. Maybe an exhaust exiting at the floor / tea tray intersection, pointing towards the centerline of the car to aim for the diffuser more efficiently?

[Ferraripilot]

That would be brilliant. I hope they do something clever like that. If they are shooting for 1+ seconds they had better have something to that effect.

[Giblet]

Posts about the merits of multi element wings have been moved here.

[BrawnGP]

Brawn has already stated that he has not seen the final merc exhaust solution on any other car (yet)!! but states it is not that radical either!? So no, it wont be like the (Renault(Infinity),Lada,Lotus) front exhaust. Hopefully the new exhaust will somehow feed into the double floor that has been speculated on here.

Regarding the new upgrade package Sam Micheals has said the FW33 will have all new bodywork except the rear wing!!!

However i still cant see that any of the other teams will have radically different looking cars or different exhaust systems.

I reckon in Bahrain the W02 will visually look the most different. New bodywork = cooling problems sorted. That alone should put some performance back.
More downforce from:
Unique new exhaust, doublefloor?, new front wing.

I think they will be close to RB and Ferrari in Melbourne even up there with them being quicker down the straights!! (probably have to pit 4 times tho)

[PlatinumZealot]

Wonder if they are putting the exhaust right underneath the beam wing?

[JohnsonsEvilTwin]

Wonder if they are putting the exhaust right underneath the beam wing?

This is what Im thinking
Maybe why they have also struggled to get the car passed for crash testing if it impeded on the rear crash stucture.
It could also point to why the W02 has swept pull rods instead of the Red Bull variety......