David Purley

[Jon]

Strad, I don't get what got you pissed.

As you can see, the blame is not on those who read history, but on those who write it.

I do agree with the notion that history is not written in a 100% accurate way. But I disagree when you say it is not the fault of the reader. You see, I am younger than you are and yet I have known about David Purley and his heroic act for almost a decade now. So the information IS out there, it's just that we, as readers, need to find it. The thing is, are we interested enough to put the effort in finding it? Some of us are, some of us aren't. But, and this ties with what I understand caused Strad's "anger", how can we call ourselves "true fans" if we choose to ignore the fact that we don't know it all? Let's be a little more humble and accept that there's so much out there we don't know, that we might never know, and stop presenting ourselves as know it alls.

You see, it is one of the major faults of the members in this forum. Some of them have an engineering degree and they act as if that simple fact makes them equal to god. They act as if they understand and know everything and behave as bullies if along comes someone who dares to challenge that facade. Just take a look at the first reply to the OP in this same thread. viewtopic.php?f=1&t=9571 Go on, I'll wait.

You are back? Good. See what I mean? I'm sure that guy is a competent engineer. Maybe a very good one. But he fails at empathy. And really, he is showing so much ignorance. Come on, have human beings never defied the odds and come out on top? No? Never? In the whole of history? Not even once? Hint: They have, several times. The whole existence of the human race hinges on beating the odds in a glacial age; western civilization beat the odds when Greece beat Persia...a blind man got to the top of the Everest; heck, even me being here involved a race to beat the odds! Imagine that! (If you want a racing example, someone already mentioned a certain Lauda who survived being trapped in a fiery blaze of an F1 car.) And yet this guy says that...

Ok, long post. I'll end it now with this: See how I just became a moral bully? Didn't you love it?

[strad]

=D>

[JohnsonsEvilTwin]

how can we call ourselves "true fans" if we choose to ignore the fact that we don't know it all? Let's be a little more humble and accept that there's so much out there we don't know, that we might never know, and stop presenting ourselves as know it alls.

Lets get over the exchanges, and just respect Purley for doing something no one else attempted to do that day. Manchild started the thread, and I never seen or heard about this event(incident is too small a word).
I have a fairly good knowledge of F1, and consider myself a fan.
To be 100% fully knowledgable on the topic of death in F1 is more than just a bit macabre. Perhaps one is a "true fan" without needing to know about this?
There is a difference between being a fan and a Historian.

Its a terrible tragedy played out live. A man died with another man desperatley trying to save save him, lets not sully their memories by debating who is a fan, who is right or who is wrong. We all share the same feeling of sadness, sharing that emotion feels more appropriate.

[strad]

To be 100% fully knowledgeable on the topic of death in F1 is more than just a bit macabre

No...Just aware of what our sport was compared to what it has become and aware of the heroes that made auto racing .
If ya claim to be a baseball fan ya oughta know about ,,oh say,,Lou Gherig...Mickey Mantle, Jackie Robinson et al understand the infield fly rule.
Can ya be a fan an NOT know about Willie Mays over the shoulder catch against the Indians in the world series?
But let's do let it drop. AND maybe some will be inspired to look back and learn about the other heros of auto racing.
http://www.ddavid.com/formula1/
Do yourselves a real favor and learn about the time before 1950.
http://www.kolumbus.fi/leif.snellman/main.htm

[manchild]

Strad, with all respect, have you read my post? viewtopic.php?f=1&t=9571&start=29

"Lou Gherig...Mickey Mantle, Jackie Robinson", according to you that equals Roger Williamson and David Purley in the F1 history books?! C'mon, that equals Fangio, Clark, Stewart...

I've spent more time reading about F1/motorsport in general, and automotive history from 19th century onwards, than what it takes to read in order to get PhD, and as it turned out, just like many others, I've never came across Purley or Williamson in what I've been reading.

1973=Cevert dies. That is in 99% what you get about 1973 season tragedies. Not a word about Williamson, hardly Purley.

Check my post. Schlegelmilch guys are top professionals, how come they have pics the rest from the field but not Purley and Williamson? Cevert and Williamson died in same season, yet at any F1 historical photo archive you won't find pic of Williamson, but there will be a pile of Cevert's.

Tell me, is it that they don't know about Williamson, don't care, or don't find him as relevant as Cevert?

Explain me why "ultimate" connoisseurs like YA, who are in charge of editing Formula 1 Wikipedia pages, haven't mentioned Williamson, but only Cevert?

Why don't you give them a buzz, or edit wiki page, so that people can learn about it, instead of underrating them for not knowing about it?

You've grabbed on this single incident as a proof that people who claim to be fans are not well informed. Did you know why Renault's post WWII paint was yellow before I wrote it in quiz, or that Alpine founder Jean Redele's father was mechanic working of Renault 1906. GP winning car, or any other small historical fact shared by someone else on the forum over the years?

You're blaming them, us, whatever, for not knowing something that is being left over even on major F1 resources, telling that we should have looked for it on other places. Did it cross your mind that people CAN'T search for something unless they know that it happened?

Good for you if you know it all, but please stop underrating obvious majority who haven't heard about this 1973. incident until now.

[strad]

Boy...All I can say is you were reading the wrong books and I would not give you a PhD.
The baseball analogy? Come on.
I offered a couple of good sites that would serve a good start, but the fact is I have offered historical video and literature here, to absolutely no interest.
I owe no one an apology,,,I've not insulted anyone. I simply say it would benefit many on this site to know a little more about the sport they claim to love.
IF, that upsets some, then for that I am sorry, but more so for their loss.
as an aside I do like manchilds signature.

[donskar]

Was Williamson's death lesser tragedy than Cevert's, only because Cevert was more successful and drove for the top team?

You can change those names to Ratzenberger and Senna for a more recent version of the same thing.

I'm sure every F1 fan (and many others who are not fans) could tell you who died during the Imola GP in 1994. But how many would remember to include poor Roland?

And how many others would remember that Rubens was extremely lucky not to give Death a hat-trick on that awful weekend...

To answer your question, no Williamson's death was not any less tragic but histories are written by humans and humans are imperfect things - they make mistakes.

Maybe we can learn something from the classics: Aristotle defined tragedy as the fall of a great man....

[Formula None]

Boy...All I can say is you were reading the wrong books and I would not give you a PhD.
The baseball analogy? Come on.
I offered a couple of good sites that would serve a good start, but the fact is I have offered historical video and literature here, to absolutely no interest.
I owe no one an apology,,,I've not insulted anyone. I simply say it would benefit many on this site to know a little more about the sport they claim to love.
IF, that upsets some, then for that I am sorry, but more so for their loss.
as an aside I do like manchilds signature.

strad, you consistently make only negative comments and create posts containing a single emoticon. Then you post some decades old Shell advertisements (or whatever else you're referring to) on a technical forum and become offended that no one cares. Why would you expect otherwise? There are forums out there that specialize more in talking about drivers and history. This is not one, although it does occur from time to time (this thread, for example, which ironically you've turned up your nose to).

I do not consider myself an F1 fan, by most definitions. I have no favorite drivers or teams (okay, I do root for underdogs, but who doesn't?). I'm simply fascinated by aerospace-level engineering and enjoy the spectacle of talent and sensory overload that F1 offers. This has been F1's draw for me for about 12 years. I'm not going to spend time learning about all the deaths in F1 that authors have deemed important enough to write about. If that means I'll never be a "true fan" by your definition, fine, just don't feel obliged to denigrate everyone for being interested in F1 for reasons other than yours.

[xpensive]

Claiming to be a seasoned F1 fan and well read-up on the history of the same sport, without ever hearing about the tragic death of Roger Williamsson, or David Purleys heroic actions to help him, is nothing less that ridicilous.

As when an F1T veteran disclosed himself not for 40 years been able to understand what the airbox/scoop was good for,
why he asked for calculations just in order to properly document that he didn't have a clue of what he was talking about.

[xpensive]

...
I'm sure that guy is a competent engineer. Maybe a very good one.
...

[strad]

Formula None said:

Then you post some decades old Shell advertisements

I can only assume you are talking about the Shell History of Motorsport as Shell ads.
You are once again exposing yourself.
Hardly Shell ads

This set is a must have for all motor racing enthusiasts. It covers the very early days, with superb, if occasionally slightly artistically flawed, original footage of the pioneers at venues like the Grand Prix de l'ACF in Dieppe northern France, right the way through Type 35 Bugattis racing at Monaco, Auto Unions and Mercs of Nazi Germany in action at the original Nurburgring and 250F Maseratis with all the famous drivers.
There is current day (1960s) footage of VSCC racing at Silverstone too with some pretty impressve and rare machinery, much of which is no longer in competitive use.
A very comprehensive and unique chronological history of what was an exhilerating, dangerous, competitive and largely amateur sport until the outbreak of WW2.

Try pulling you head out.
Excuse me for trying to share.
I will say if you depend on Wiki,,you're selling yourself short.

[Giblet]

Please cut the bickering about when you knew about this incident in your life as an F1 fan.

I can almost guarantee that there is not a single F1 fan on here that learned about Purley first, before everything current about the sport. If you were alive and a fan during the time, you have the luxury of age on your side. You can just tell the young'ens to get the heck off your lawn.

What that means is simple, that everyone had to acquire this knowledge after getting into the sport. To keep the thread from getting locked, please step back a bit and celebrate Purley, and keep the squabbling about who is a better historian out of it.

Thanks!

[strad]

I was gonna tell ya to get off my lawn but instead I'll drop it.

[manchild]

Moving on with topic...

I was checking the list of injured F1 drivers, Purley survived horrible crash in 1977 during British GP with multiple fractures of leg, pelvis and rib.

Check the space between the seat and the front axle

[strad]

Many of the cars in those days had the drivers feet ahead of the front axle line.
So many times the drives feet or legs were crushed.
But you know, them engineers decided to put them there.