Is McLaren really off the pace?

[Pup]

Average WCC position:

McLaren with Newey (1998-2006) - 2.56
McLaren since Newey (2007-2010) - 2.00
Newy since McLaren (2007-2010) - 3.75

What's to argue?

[PNSD]

you've got to ask what else is wrong.

Whats wrong?

This is a competitive sport, things are changing all the time, teams going up and down is simply a function based on the competitive nature of the sport. Just because they won one year in specific circumstances does not automatically mean they will win in another year with different circumstances.

[PlatinumZealot]

Average WCC position:

McLaren with Newey (1998-2006) - 2.56
McLaren since Newey (2007-2010) - 2.00
Newy since McLaren (2007-2010) - 3.75

What's to argue?

Yes, but Mclaren are not dominant anymore. All us Macca fans just want a Dominant car -

And I think it's gonna be a long long time (Elton jon voice)

[Pup]

Average WCC position:

McLaren with Newey (1998-2006) - 2.56
McLaren since Newey (2007-2010) - 2.00
Newy since McLaren (2007-2010) - 3.75

What's to argue?

Yes, but Mclaren are not dominant anymore. All us Macca fans just want a Dominant car -

And I think it's gonna be a long long time (Elton jon voice)

Things come and go. To put it in perspective, McLaren's overall average WCC position, since Dennis took charge, is 2.47. So they've been batting above average the past four years. And as it turns out, Newey was a bit of a downer.

It's funny how everyone looks at 2007 like it was a disaster of a year. Ferrari and McLaren are the only two teams probably in the history of the sport who are judged so harshly. We haven't even had a race this year, and people are calling for heads to roll.

[timbo]

Yes, but Mclaren are not dominant anymore. All us Macca fans just want a Dominant car -

And I think it's gonna be a long long time (Elton jon voice)

It was dominant for two years with Newey. Even one year to be strictly correct.

[fausto cedros]

I don't think that mclaren needs a dominant car: they just need a strong base, and to reduce all the errors by the drivers and race management. I still think that Monza and Singapore played a big part in throwing away the championship

[segedunum]

I have no idea what those averages are supposed to represent (possibly an attempt to mask the last thirteen years), but the point was that no constructors' titles in thirteen years and one driver's title that they ended up falling over the line for seems scant return for their status as a 'grandee' team. That's got nothing to do with having a dominant car.

[Just_a_fan]

I have no idea what those averages are supposed to represent (possibly an attempt to mask the last thirteen years), but the point was that no constructors' titles in thirteen years and one driver's title that they ended up falling over the line for seems scant return for their status as a 'grandee' team. That's got nothing to do with having a dominant car.

Ferrari had a gap of 15 years between manufacturer's titles, 21 years between driver's titles. Then they had 8 out of 10 years with at least one title. Success comes and goes.

[Pup]

I have no idea what those averages are supposed to represent ...

What they represent is you being wrong. McLaren have done better over the past four years than they averaged over the last thirty. There's no way to spin that fact to claim that they are on the decline. They aren't - plain, simple.

[myurr]

Even then, their track record since they last won the constructors' in 1998 hasn't exactly been stellar to the point where you've got to ask what else is wrong.

But Newey was in charge of the car for the majority of those years since then. There is no magic bullet and after the next change of regulations we could just as easily see another team take over and dominate and Red Bull slip back. Newey is an incredibly talented engineer, but so are all the other guys at Red Bull, Ferrari, McLaren and the other teams.

There's nothing fundamentally wrong at McLaren, but they do need to up their game. Let's see if they can do so this year once they get some decent miles and finalised parts on their car.

[PlatinumZealot]

I don't like how they alternate the technical directors every year. The same guy who made the 24 did not make the 25 but is now making the 26. You can imagine Tim Goss has to getting third hand info from the 25 to mix it with the 24 and inject it into the 26. Too much room for dilution, contamination and obfuscation.

Contrastingly, the RB5 and Adrian Newey begat the RB6, who with Adrain Newey again, begat the RB7. So that incestuous relationship gives the RB7 the infinitely powerful advantage of being its own grandpa.

[ringo]

I don't think that mclaren needs a dominant car: they just need a strong base, and to reduce all the errors by the drivers and race management. I still think that Monza and Singapore played a big part in throwing away the championship

Nope you are wrong, and i see what you are suggesting subliminally. Why don't you just say Hamilton threw away the championship that they never had?
Singapore would not have happened if the car was fast enough.
Passing a redbull which is 1 second a lap faster than you, on a street circuit is not something you'd expect to happen at all.

You should realize that most of the issues last year were because of a inferior car boxing above it's weight class. It shouldn't have won Australia, Redbull had bad luck, neither turkey, or china. Many races the 25 wasn't even worthy of a podium finish.

A dominant car is what is needed to control the races and win predictably, not depending on the driver's talent to turn a ribsy dog of a car into a Thoroughbred.
I wont even mention praying for weather gambles. Shameful behavior which should only be excused for back markers.

[feynman]

I don't like how they alternate the technical directors every year.

Thing is, they are not ... Pat Fry left/got sacked (* delete as appropriate), so Goss is engineering his second in a row.

... and even when they did rotate the Chief Engineer, Lowe, Oatley and McKiernan all stayed in place from car to car.

[CHT]

13 years of no WCC title for a top budget team like Mclaren is a long time if you consider that throughout the last 12 years or so, they have been enjoying great financial support from a big car manufacturers like Merc, operate from a world class facilities, and having the best drivers on the grid.

If you are a financial backer to a team like Mclaren, I am sure you must have already throw in the towel and call it a day. Thats probably one of the reason why Merc has decided to part ways with Mclaren and run their own team instead.

Bouncing from AN's commented in an interview during his "gardening leave" at Mclaren, I think that the reason for Mclaren title drought could be due to Ron Dennis's working style and the way he manage the MTC.

Having said, that, I think Mclaren probably has the strongest fan based in any english speaking countries at the moment. Partly due to the fact that Lewis is driving for them.

For this season, I think Mclaren will have to work doublely hard not just to improve close the gap with the front runner, but also to ensure Lewis doesnt quit the team due to the lack of championship opportunity,

[feynman]

If you are a financial backer to a team like Mclaren, I am sure you must have already throw in the towel and call it a day.

Well realistically, from all available evidence, if you were a financial backer to a team exactly like McLaren you would likely right now be re-upping and extending your contract. They have sponsors and partners whose association is measured in decades. So we must conclude that constructor championship titles figure relatively little in the brand value and business and marketing opportunities that partners receive and perceive from their engagement with McLaren. Vodafone re-upped, Santander re-upped, Diageo re-upped, Mumtalakat deep stacked their holding. Maybe as far as backers are concerned the Button/Hamilton easy media style, McLaren brand image, and a shiny glass MTC, represent a much greater opportunity and value-proposition to their business than any specialist press constructors title. Or so it would seem.

Thats probably one of the reason why Merc has decided to part ways with Mclaren and run their own team instead.

The resource restriction and new FOM deal meant Merc could run a team and look to a reasonable expectation that it turn into a profit centre, that's reason 1, zig as all your manufacturer rivals zagged and quit F1, build a team under their own control. And reason 2 was probably MP4-12C versus SLS shaped. Any lack of WCC, seems to me unlikely as a significant driver in that decision.