Mercedes GP W02

A place to discuss the characteristics of the cars in Formula One, both current as well as historical. Laptimes, driver worshipping and team chatter do not belong here.
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747heavy
24
Joined: 06 Jul 2010, 21:45

Re: Mercedes GP W02

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Thanks scarbs,

I just wanted to highlight, that wheelbase (to an extend) can be tuned/altered independ of overall car/chassis length.

As DaveW mentioned wheelbase used to be (perhaps still is), a tuning parameter in
some racing series (Indycars and I believe even F1 in the past), and can be choosen track specific.

I would not be surpised at all to see different wheelbase values for Monaco and Monza/Canada in F1.
Without different chassis and gearboxes.
"Make the suspension adjustable and they will adjust it wrong ......
look what they can do to a carburetor in just a few moments of stupidity with a screwdriver."
- Colin Chapman

“Simplicity is the ultimate sophistication.” - Leonardo da Vinci

Raptor22
Raptor22
26
Joined: 07 Apr 2009, 22:48

Re: Mercedes GP W02

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the only example of changing wheelbase in recent time I can remember was the Ferrari F198 where they lengthened the car by inserting a plug between the engine and gearbox and lengthened the floor. It didn't really add any performance but it helped the car be more easy on its rear tyres.
I can't recall any other cars since requiring this,

as for the W02,it hard to say that the current WB is good or bad either way
issues of cost, issues of packaging?
They could have a smaller tub, or a smaller gearbox or or oro

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ringo
230
Joined: 29 Mar 2009, 10:57

Re: Mercedes GP W02

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747heavy wrote:does longer/shorter wheelbase equals longer/shorter overall length?

I think last year MGP did increase the wheelbase without making the car physical longer (length between nose tip and rear wing)

just some thoughts to keep in mind
I think you would have to increase the overall length of the car under a few circumstances. You don't have to in the case of a front change, but in the rear then yes.
If you move the rear wheels back relative to the gearbox drive outputs, the rear wing and everything else has to be moved back to keep the relationship with the rear wheel center line.
Maximum overhang in the rear is 600mm from the wheel centre line. Diffuser can only extend to 350mm from it, IIRC. If you desparately want to keep the same length then reducing crash structure length by the increase in wheel base would work, but who would go that far? :)

Now in the front. The maximum over hang allowed is 1200mm from wheel CL. The good thing is that at the front the nose has little to with the placement of the front wing under it.
A movement of the front wheel centre line would only mean thet the wing has to be moved accordingly, provided you have enough nose tip left. I think the front of the wing has to be 1000mm ahead of the line.
So in Mercedes' case, a new nose was a no no, since those are homologated. So new wing pylons that extend forward by the same distance as the wheel base to keep the 1000mm distance is the best work around.
The only reason i remember this is because I'm currently building a 3d car to the word of the regs and had to draw up all the regulation areas and boundaries. :wink:

edit: Just realized the question was already answered.
For Sure!!

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Byronrhys
0
Joined: 09 Aug 2010, 03:14

Re: Mercedes GP W02

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ringo wrote:
747heavy wrote:does longer/shorter wheelbase equals longer/shorter overall length?

I think last year MGP did increase the wheelbase without making the car physical longer (length between nose tip and rear wing)

just some thoughts to keep in mind
I think you would have to increase the overall length of the car under a few circumstances. You don't have to in the case of a front change, but in the rear then yes.
If you move the rear wheels back relative to the gearbox drive outputs, the rear wing and everything else has to be moved back to keep the relationship with the rear wheel center line.
Maximum overhang in the rear is 600mm from the wheel centre line. Diffuser can only extend to 350mm from it, IIRC. If you desparately want to keep the same length then reducing crash structure length by the increase in wheel base would work, but who would go that far? :)

Now in the front. The maximum over hang allowed is 1200mm from wheel CL. The good thing is that at the front the nose has little to with the placement of the front wing under it.
A movement of the front wheel centre line would only mean thet the wing has to be moved accordingly, provided you have enough nose tip left. I think the front of the wing has to be 1000mm ahead of the line.
So in Mercedes' case, a new nose was a no no, since those are homologated. So new wing pylons that extend forward by the same distance as the wheel base to keep the 1000mm distance is the best work around.
The only reason i remember this is because I'm currently building a 3d car to the word of the regs and had to draw up all the regulation areas and boundaries. :wink:

edit: Just realized the question was already answered.
Actually if they did it before March 1st they could have gotten away with it.

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747heavy
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Joined: 06 Jul 2010, 21:45

Re: Mercedes GP W02

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Raptor22 wrote:the only example of changing wheelbase in recent time I can remember was the Ferrari F198 where they lengthened the car by inserting a plug between the engine and gearbox and lengthened the floor.
How about this one?
As Ferrari did in Silverstone, in Valencia McLaren shortened the wheelbase of the MP4-24, moving the front suspension backwards by 75mm in order to have more weight over the front tyres. Only Lewis Hamilton had the revised car and when he touched the wall on Friday there were no spares for the damaged front wing and he was forced to sit out the rest of the session. Team mate Heikki Kovalainen tested new front wing endplates, but in the end these were not used for the race.

http://www.formula1.com/news/technical/ ... 6/686.html
Last edited by 747heavy on 08 Mar 2011, 00:57, edited 1 time in total.
"Make the suspension adjustable and they will adjust it wrong ......
look what they can do to a carburetor in just a few moments of stupidity with a screwdriver."
- Colin Chapman

“Simplicity is the ultimate sophistication.” - Leonardo da Vinci

MrBlacky
MrBlacky
0
Joined: 15 Dec 2010, 09:18

Re: Mercedes GP W02

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They might bring their new exhaust tomorrow.
excited to know what it'll look like.

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Holm86
247
Joined: 10 Feb 2010, 03:37
Location: Copenhagen, Denmark

Re: Mercedes GP W02

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747heavy wrote:
Raptor22 wrote:the only example of changing wheelbase in recent time I can remember was the Ferrari F198 where they lengthened the car by inserting a plug between the engine and gearbox and lengthened the floor.
How about this one?
As Ferrari did in Silverstone, in Valencia McLaren shortened the wheelbase of the MP4-24, moving the front suspension backwards by 75mm in order to have more weight over the front tyres. Only Lewis Hamilton had the revised car and when he touched the wall on Friday there were no spares for the damaged front wing and he was forced to sit out the rest of the session. Team mate Heikki Kovalainen tested new front wing endplates, but in the end these were not used for the race.

http://www.formula1.com/news/technical/ ... 6/686.html

Mercedes lengthend their wheelbase last year :
http://www.formula1.com/news/technical/ ... 8/745.html

andrew
andrew
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Joined: 16 Feb 2010, 15:08
Location: Aberdeen, Scotland - WhiteBlue Country (not the region)

Re: Mercedes GP W02

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MrBlacky wrote:They might bring their new exhaust tomorrow.
excited to know what it'll look like.
I take it they got it past the rear end crash tests? Last I heard, the proposed exhaust was failing in crash tests.

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JohnsonsEvilTwin
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Joined: 29 Jan 2010, 11:51
Location: SU 419113

Re: Mercedes GP W02

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andrew wrote:
MrBlacky wrote:They might bring their new exhaust tomorrow.
excited to know what it'll look like.
I take it they got it past the rear end crash tests? Last I heard, the proposed exhaust was failing in crash tests.
we will see a new exhaust. If only to appease the media....
More could have been done.
David Purley

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dren
226
Joined: 03 Mar 2010, 14:14

Re: Mercedes GP W02

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Norbert stated that the crash testing wouldn't be an issue.
Honda!

tjaeger
tjaeger
0
Joined: 13 Oct 2010, 03:52

Re: Mercedes GP W02

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Re - Mfg costs for longer wheel base

I cannot imagine that adding a few lbs/kg or resin to extent the car would make that heavy of an impact if you are spending that amount of money during a season. How much is it these days? $M120 or?

Once you design a new car it should not matter how long you make the molds and all other bolt on piece as these are re-designed anyways. So the raw material costs cannot be that big of a deal.

Unless all your tooling in your shop, ovens, press to form the tub and so forth is limited and you cannot manufacture anything longer than a certain size, or you would have to upgrade your entire mfg chain, tools, presses, ovens...

Maybe I am wrong, just sounds that strange on first thought that the raw material costs would bust the budget....

Guess there are other more technical reasons and hope they work out well.

thanks for all the great posts on here.
You cannot engineer out stupidity.

tjaeger
tjaeger
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Joined: 13 Oct 2010, 03:52

Re: Mercedes GP W02

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Posting from german site; RTL.

Allein von der neuen Auspuffanlage, an der bis zuletzt in der Teamfabrik in Brackley getüftelt und gefeilt wurde, versprechen sich die Mercedes-Ingenieure eine Verbesserung von sechs Zehntelsekunden pro Runde. "
http://www.rtl.de/cms/information/forme ... tid=658567

Brawn and the engineers from Brackley are expecting 0,6 sec per lap from the new exhaust system alone. They have been working on it diligently....
You cannot engineer out stupidity.

MrBlacky
MrBlacky
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Joined: 15 Dec 2010, 09:18

Re: Mercedes GP W02

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Mh okay, just read, that Mercedes will not test today.

Raptor22
Raptor22
26
Joined: 07 Apr 2009, 22:48

Re: Mercedes GP W02

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considering they were still packing the trucks yesterday, I'm not surprised.

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JohnsonsEvilTwin
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Joined: 29 Jan 2010, 11:51
Location: SU 419113

Re: Mercedes GP W02

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Raptor22 wrote:considering they were still packing the trucks yesterday, I'm not surprised.
Did you mention there were new moulds being loaded?
More could have been done.
David Purley