Is McLaren really off the pace?

[astracrazy]

perhaps eddie has a point with mclarens staff set up. 2 designers alternating cars. It doesn't work. 2008 good car, 2009 poor car, 2010 good car, 2011 poor car. erm...

it seems each designers goes there own way and doesn't look at the last car. look at red bull, there car has virtually been an evolution since the RB5. You could more or less say the same maybe for ferrari since 2009 but def since 2010.

Is it the same designer who done the mp4-24 and now the mp4-26?

[raymondu999]

they alternated up to 2010, then the 2011 machine is a joint design effort AFAIK, like Jake has said. The change happened after Pat Fry left for Ferrari

[Jersey Tom]

Only thing that matters is how you finish, not how you start.

Admittedly, starting strong is a bonus. Feels pretty good being 1st in points 3 races in

[CHT]

EJ's words should never be heeded. He's just a troll, difference is he's run a team before, and he gets millions of TV viewers. BUT when he gets a single snippet right he looks like a genius. Wasn't he the first one who called the Schumacher-Mercedes 2010 tieup?

I think anybody who speaks truefully about Mclaren form right now are trolls to you Take it easy, its not the end of the world

[raymondu999]

I didn't say that. I can see that McLaren, at least based on what we've seen so far, are struggling. To what extent, I don't know. But I'm saying that I've never listened to what EJ says, as more often than not he's wrong and just confuses matters. I said EJ was a troll, not that he was trolling when he said McLaren were off the pace

[astracrazy]

they alternated up to 2010, then the 2011 machine is a joint design effort AFAIK, like Jake has said. The change happened after Pat Fry left for Ferrari

well, how far with the new car did they get before they decided this. He left in May. None of us know what they started this years car

[myurr]

they alternated up to 2010, then the 2011 machine is a joint design effort AFAIK, like Jake has said. The change happened after Pat Fry left for Ferrari

well, how far with the new car did they get before they decided this. He left in May. None of us know what they started this years car

True, but a top employee like Fry would have a severely limiting contract in terms of when he can leave and what the notice periods would be. It's safe to assume that McLaren knew many months before he left that he had handed his notice in, and it's quite likely that he was never involved in the design of the MP4-26.

[horse]

True, but a top employee like Fry would have a severely limiting contract in terms of when he can leave and what the notice periods would be. It's safe to assume that McLaren knew many months before he left that he had handed his notice in, and it's quite likely that he was never involved in the design of the MP4-26.

Whether or not he was directly involved in the design, part of his legacy is carried forward into the new car. Much of the nose and front wing is the same (small evolution) of last years car, so whoever designed it, some of Fry's influence is still present on the current car for better or for worse.

[marcush.]

to have more than one design team is a two folded sword.You need a lot of extra recources or at least a lot of people with the right incredients that will form better two teams than one concerted team.
the positive side would be to get an extra year for development -the basic research and concept has a longer gestation time ....that should be good ,but on the other side you should have the right concepts already on your current car...
I feel this approach will free you up to try new things and get them to work ..exactly what we see in Mclaren.

[Shrieker]

From crash

Lewis says:

“That doesn't mean it won't become a world championship-winning car,” the 26-year-old told reporters at this week's Barcelona test, on the second day of which he managed to cover a mere 57 laps due to ongoing reliability woes.

“They (Brundle, Coulthard and Jordan) don't drive it so they don't know exactly how it is. I wouldn't agree with what he (Brundle) says. The car feels better than last year's car. It isn't as fast as others are, but two years ago we were two or three seconds off the pace and now we are maybe a second. We definitely have the strength within the team to catch up.”

Lewis says the car feels better than the 25. But previously he also said that the 26 lacks a lot of downforce. Could it be that McLaren returned to their roots with a better suspension config, and that's why Lewis thinks the car feels better ? With the ban on double diffusers everyone is losing df this year, but maybe because McLaren haven't gotten their unconventional aero to work (yet) they've lost more df ? So when (or if) they get their new concept working properly, they'll be there or thereabouts; no ?

[marcush.]

did they look quick last year at that time?In winter testing Sauber and Ferrari were the ones who were quick ,alomng with RedBull who were not really pushing.
Hamailton repeatedly said the 25 was the best car he ever drove...drivers are drivers and sometime their comments are not really reflective of what is going on.Who would write off the season before it even started ...in other words:hope springs eternal as Schumacher said in the aftermath of the test results in 2010.

[speedsense]

From crash

Lewis says:

“That doesn't mean it won't become a world championship-winning car,” the 26-year-old told reporters at this week's Barcelona test, on the second day of which he managed to cover a mere 57 laps due to ongoing reliability woes.

“They (Brundle, Coulthard and Jordan) don't drive it so they don't know exactly how it is. I wouldn't agree with what he (Brundle) says. The car feels better than last year's car. It isn't as fast as others are, but two years ago we were two or three seconds off the pace and now we are maybe a second. We definitely have the strength within the team to catch up.”

Lewis says the car feels better than the 25. But previously he also said that the 26 lacks a lot of downforce. Could it be that McLaren returned to their roots with a better suspension config, and that's why Lewis thinks the car feels better ? With the ban on double diffusers everyone is losing df this year, but maybe because McLaren haven't gotten their unconventional aero to work (yet) they've lost more df ? So when (or if) they get their new concept working properly, they'll be there or thereabouts; no ?

IMHO, they have too many config's of exhaust (which keeps having failures) and something unconventional going on with hydraulics (also quite a few failures). And a serious lack of set up time, which builds driver confidence in the car.
I think if there was an aero problem, we would see new side pods, floors, etc., ain't happening, we're seeing exhaust changes, and stuff happening around the diffuser.
Ferrari has tried wings, RB has tried wings...Mclaren, conventional wings except for bottom endplates??? If the car was off in the aero dept., why isn't anything changing??? This team threw everything but the kitchen sink in aero at the car in three races last year, and in four test sessions and still no major changes to aero...
Both drivers have made comments on how much better this car feels than last year's car... then we get comments in the press like Hamilton's, which I might add based on previous comments when the car wasn't good, weren't like those above...fishy.....
I don't know about you guys, but I'm getting suspicious something's up and it ain't aero, at least aero we can see currently. Something's being held back, a part of this story that isn't being played or shown or talked about...

If you need downforce, a better set of wings might help and be instant in laptime to a car that handles well but needs downforce (I don't think Mclaren has forgotten how to build wings...ummmmm one wonders....

[astracrazy]

I fail to understand how it can feel better that last year. Surely you'd get in the car and notice the difference? which would make you think this car isn't as good as last year?

[Pup]

I think he means the car is a bit more compliant, less skittish, better set up range, etc. That was a problem for both the 24 and 25, and was an area they set out to correct this year.

[raymondu999]

The 24 was skittish? It was quite good mechanically but bad aerodynamically. THe MP4-25, vice versa.