Mercedes GP 2011

[chillah]

Schumacher did his lap with soft tyres not the super soft.

AMS Ticker Germany:
11:56 Noch eine gute Nachricht für alle Mercedes-Fans: Schumacher soll seine absolute Bestzeit auf Reifen der Marke "soft" und nicht auf den ultraweichen "supersoft" gefahren haben, die sogar noch schneller gewesen wären. Damit hat der Mercedes das gestern von Ross Brawn angekündigte Potenzial eindrucksvoll bewiesen.

[i70q7m7ghw]

This must be how Red Bull pass the deflection test, the wing flexes when pushed from the front, the test is done by pushing from above...

Ok so you;re suggesting the wing in fact pendulums about the pylins and the angle of attack increases.... possible.

that would contravene the rule that the central portion of the wing cannot produce downforce,it has to be neutral. they would not be able to get away with the arguement that it is impossible to build a flex free structure

Does the rule actually say the central portion of the wing cannot produce downforce? I always thought it was just a standard part that doesn't produce downforce...

Well either way, the also aren't meant to flex, but they do.

[marcush.]

I assume JET is unable to type something useful at this time as he must be dancing on the table right now...

[shelly]

This must be how Red Bull pass the deflection test, the wing flexes when pushed from the front, the test is done by pushing from above...

Ok so you;re suggesting the wing in fact pendulums about the pylins and the angle of attack increases.... possible.

that would contravene the rule that the central portion of the wing cannot produce downforce,it has to be neutral. they would not be able to get away with the arguement that it is impossible to build a flex free structure

What about bend-twist coupling? Carbon can be laminated so to behave very strangely: it bends when torsion moment is applied, and twists when flexing force is applied.

[ForMuLaOne]

I assume JET is unable to type something useful at this time as he must be dancing on the table right now...

I believe there are many people dancing right now....just wanna see Michael doing the same

Still a lot Potential, old Front Wing, Soft Tyres for this best lap. So let`s see how Michael pushes it with new FW and on Supersofts.

[segedunum]

Im certain they added a 3 element front wing to full scale models in the wind tunnel, and havent changed because it isnt beneficial.

They haven't changed it, and haven't managed to for eighteen months, because they don't understand it. There was a thread kicking around about multi-element front wings where it was gone into, and it's all about stability under braking when the car is closer to the ground and getting the car to turn quickly into a corner while still having the downforce once that is done.

It is funny to see people around here who've been telling us we can't read anything into testing times, even when we've had multiple laps over multiple test sessions to compare, who are now putting all their eggs into this one glorified lap. You look at the time drop-off from the first lap and it's still quite large. I know Mercedes probably wanted to get a lap in that would divert attention, but overall with all the laps on the short runs he's done things don't look a great deal better.

How much do we all want to bet that Rosberg doesn't get anywhere near to this time?

The shocking part of this time is, that if MercedesGP can run 1.21,2 than Red Bull can run 1.20,2

I think we can safely say that the Red Bull can certainly achieve low 1:20s and almost certainly get into the 19s looking at this.

[luca]

Can anyone tell from a technical point of view whether the new front wing is designed to help turn-in?

[horse]

That would contravene the rule that the central portion of the wing cannot produce downforce,it has to be neutral. they would not be able to get away with the arguement that it is impossible to build a flex free structure

Where does it say that the central section can't produce downforce?

3.7.3 Forward of a point lying 450mm ahead of the front wheel centre line and less than 250mm from the car centre line and less than 125mm above the reference plane, only one single section may be contained within any longitudinal vertical cross section parallel to the car centre line. Furthermore, with the exception of local changes of section where the bodywork defined in Article 3.7.2 attaches to this section, the profile, incidence and position of this section must conform to Drawing 7.

The only argument is that the incidence has changed, but it's measured when the car is stationary, there are no tests for when the car is in motion.

Are we not back into the Flex-wings thread with this? I'm going to report myself.

[JohnsonsEvilTwin]

Im certain they added a 3 element front wing to full scale models in the wind tunnel, and havent changed because it isnt beneficial.

They haven't changed it, and haven't managed to for eighteen months, because they don't understand it. There was a thread kicking around about multi-element front wings where it was gone into, and it's all about stability under braking when the car is closer to the ground and getting the car to turn quickly into a corner while still having the downforce once that is done.

Seg for Mercedes aero department anyone? you know better than an army of Aerodynamicists and Loic Bigois? Of course you do Seg, Of course you do.

It is funny to see people around here who've been telling us we can't read anything into testing times, even when we've had multiple laps over multiple test sessions to compare, who are now putting all their eggs into this one glorified lap. You look at the time drop-off from the first lap and it's still quite large. I know Mercedes probably wanted to get a lap in that would divert attention, but overall with all the laps on the short runs he's done things don't look a great deal better.

Yet its ok for you to berate the W02 as the work of a pauper, and to jump on them when they dont produce the times? How is that funny then?

I think we can safely say that the Red Bull can certainly achieve low 1:20s and almost certainly get into the 19s looking at this.

Very Scientific deduction, right up there with falling off the end of the world going past the visible horizon!

[NewtonMeter]

It is funny to see people around here who've been telling us we can't read anything into testing times, even when we've had multiple laps over multiple test sessions to compare, who are now putting all their eggs into this one glorified lap. You look at the time drop-off from the first lap and it's still quite large. I know Mercedes probably wanted to get a lap in that would divert attention, but overall with all the laps on the short runs he's done things don't look a great deal better.

Yeah while the laps were bad, they (well, me included) were the ones saying one can't read much into testing times, yet you were.

Now that the times are good, we are all celebrating and you are the one saying one can't read anything into it.

See the symmetry?

Have you ever said anything kind about Mercedes? Come on, just try, it won't kill you.

[Raptor22]

That would contravene the rule that the central portion of the wing cannot produce downforce,it has to be neutral. they would not be able to get away with the arguement that it is impossible to build a flex free structure

Where does it say that the central section can't produce downforce?

3.7.3 Forward of a point lying 450mm ahead of the front wheel centre line and less than 250mm from the car centre line and less than 125mm above the reference plane, only one single section may be contained within any longitudinal vertical cross section parallel to the car centre line. Furthermore, with the exception of local changes of section where the bodywork defined in Article 3.7.2 attaches to this section, the profile, incidence and position of this section must conform to Drawing 7.

The only argument is that the incidence has changed, but it's measured when the car is stationary, there are no tests for when the car is in motion.

Are we not back into the Flex-wings thread with this? I'm going to report myself.

Yes you are correct, the rregulation does not specify no downforce, it is the INTENSION of the reg and we all know what F1 engineers think about intension..

I guess as long as the nose cone passes the crash test it can or its associated components can flex as much as they like

[JohnsonsEvilTwin]

Ok, my feet are still firmly on the ground.

We know the Sauber pumped in a 1:21.760 with a rookie at the wheel. Being 0.5 seconds Quicker than a Sauber isnt anything special going by what Sauber have historically achieved. Although they have been known to do these fantastic times in testing for some PR value.

I'm also reading various tweets etc that the team are tinkering around with some bits and bobs, trying to decipher what will work best in specific conditions.
Expect this afternoon to be very up and down for the W02, i will try post as many pics of the variation(external mods) that is being predicted on the car.
The W02 still looks like its still need of some refinement, but I think we will see that in Oz, as we can see this car is almost like a running Laboratory at present.

[Raptor22]

This must be how Red Bull pass the deflection test, the wing flexes when pushed from the front, the test is done by pushing from above...

Ok so you;re suggesting the wing in fact pendulums about the pylins and the angle of attack increases.... possible.

that would contravene the rule that the central portion of the wing cannot produce downforce,it has to be neutral. they would not be able to get away with the arguement that it is impossible to build a flex free structure

What about bend-twist coupling? Carbon can be laminated so to behave very strangely: it bends when torsion moment is applied, and twists when flexing force is applied.

Yes I guess that is likely. I've only experience with something similar over large spans. I guess it can be scaled down with the corect selection of carbon fibre and resin.

[ForMuLaOne]

The W02 still looks like its still need of some refinement, but I think we will see that in Oz, as we can see this car is almost like a running Laboratory at present.

I agree with you, i still believe in some more changes, they are just refining step by step. I believe they were very disappointed because of last year`s problems. Compared to that situation they know exactly the benefits from their updates, they take smaller steps and refine the necessary setup. The Mercedes will be beautiful in australia.

[Raptor22]

it will be even more beautiful if its fast.

Confirmation will come from Xpensive Segedumbum slating the Merc as a cheat car.