Mercedes GP 2011

[Raptor22]

The problem is evidence. The tests are the only thing the FIA can really do to enforce the rules, but the static tests alone are proving not to be enough.

There are two solutions:-

1. Introduce new tests that are conducted while the car is in motion. Sensor rigs could be put on the car during practice, it's sent out to do a lap, and the FIA check the readings.

2. Introduce more standard components. Standardised wing sections made from stiffer materials.

Option 2 seems more like something the FIA would do, plus it would probably be cheaper and more successful. Look at ECUs, they couldn't find a way to easily ban certain driver aids, so they took control of the component that powers them.

The thing is, they could also use race pictures. There is plenty of technology that can be used nowadays to reverse engineer a shape from a simple photograph.

I know this because I use it for sail shapes on racing yachts.

There is a way to do it. Are the FIA ready to use it? That's another question...

adrianjordan -> Are you implying mgpw02 is going to become just as infamous?
Just playing. Welcome mgpw02! I guess you're on the right thread...

I've seen this used an America's Cup yacht. Interesting tech that and yes it does work!

[horse]

-no part of the bodywork is allowed to flex vertically more than 3mm(last year 5) relative to the reference plane under ALL conditions.to state it passes all tests is not confirming it´s legal...- please forgive not quating the original words of the FIA regs but basically that´s what they wrote.

Sorry, marcush, but these are the regs in full regarding bodywork flex:

3.17.1 Bodywork may deflect no more than 20mm vertically when a 1000N load is applied vertically to it 800mm forward of the front wheel centre line and 795mm from the car centre line. The load will be applied in a downward direction using a 50mm diameter ram to the centre of area of an adapter measuring 300mm x 150mm, the 300mm length having been positioned parallel to the car centre line. Teams must supply the adapter when such a test is deemed necessary.
The deflection will be measured along the loading axis at the bottom of the bodywork at this point and relative to the reference plane.

3.17.2 - 3.17.4 Rear bodywork tests

3.17.5 Bodywork may deflect no more than 5mm vertically when a 2000N load is applied vertically to it at three different points which lie on the car centre line and 100mm either side of it. Each of these loads will be applied in an upward direction at a point 380mm rearward of the front wheel centre line using a 50mm diameter ram in the two outer locations and a 70mm diameter ram on the car centre line. Stays or structures between the front of the bodywork lying on the reference plane and the survival cell may be present for this test, provided they are completely rigid and have no system or mechanism which allows non-linear deflection during any part of the test. Furthermore, the bodywork being tested in this area may not include any component which is capable of allowing more than the permitted amount of deflection under the test load (including any linear deflection above the test load), such components could include, but are not limited to :
a) Joints, bearings pivots or any other form of articulation.
b) Dampers, hydraulics or any form of time dependent component or structure.
c) Buckling members or any component or design which may have, or is suspected of having, any non-linear characteristics.
d) Any parts which may systematically or routinely exhibit permanent deformation.

I really don't think any of the above tests would apply to the wing pivoting in the longitudinal direction of the car, IF you centred that pivot 800mm forward of the front wheel centre line.

[adrianjordan]

adrianjordan -> Are you implying mgpw02 is going to become just as infamous?
Just playing. Welcome mgpw02! I guess you're on the right thread...

Hmm...my bad. My grammar isn't what it used to be...which is sad really

I am sure it won't be long before I am targeted too for my obsession with Michael Schumacher.

So long as you don't let it cloud you opinions of everyone else and lead to clear bias that you then try to deny...you'll be fine.

Anyway, we're a little OT and just making work for the fine mods around here...which I realise this is exacerbating...

[mgpw02]

Will there be any further updates?... It was very interesting to note that Michael managed his best lap with the old FW rather than the new one.

[Raptor22]

well Giblets buck needs something to chew on deer

[analist01]

I really think Mc Gp were waiting with their updates just to see where other teams were standing. Massa reported yesterday that he's glad with the updates and Alonso is probably using the same updates and is now currently 3 tenth above the time of Schumacher.

Im saying that Mercedes Gp outpaced Ferarri ?...no, not at all. Am i hoping it ?, You bet ya !

[bot6]

To get back on something at least a bit technical

3.17.1 Bodywork may deflect no more than 20mm vertically when a 1000N load is applied vertically to it 800mm forward of the front wheel centre line and 795mm from the car centre line. The load will be applied in a downward direction using a 50mm diameter ram to the centre of area of an adapter measuring 300mm x 150mm, the 300mm length having been positioned parallel to the car centre line. Teams must supply the adapter when such a test is deemed necessary.
The deflection will be measured along the loading axis at the bottom of the bodywork at this point and relative to the reference plane.

This basically means anything positioned at the front of the car cannot bend down more than 2cm, but can bend forwards or backwards as much as you want... So using drag to bend the wing back instead of using downforce to bend it down would do it...


More on topic, Brawn has said the Schumi time was set on softs with a low fuel run.

[Ferraripilot]

The team is looking very nice appearing to be maybe a hair off pace on longer stints. The best in motorsports are saying so now, so as long as Seg doesn't have any objection to what world champion F1 drivers and engineers have to say I suppose they are doing much better. Seg, did they call you to ask for your blessing first? lol

[analist01]

So, all the comments about a lost season will probably vanish into the emptiness of speculation lol

Lets face it, Mercedes Gp promised updates which will be surprising (front wing, side pots) and commented about winning tenths of seconds. Can't say they're were lying

[Ferraripilot]

So, all the comments about a lost season will probably vanish into the emptiness of speculation lol

Lets face it, Mercedes Gp promised updates which will be surprising (front wing, side pots) and commented about winning tenths of seconds. Can't say they're were lying

They delivered to what they were saying. Their long pace looks good, short pace good. While probably not #1, they have made huge progress.

[analist01]

So, all the comments about a lost season will probably vanish into the emptiness of speculation lol

Lets face it, Mercedes Gp promised updates which will be surprising (front wing, side pots) and commented about winning tenths of seconds. Can't say they're were lying

They delivered to what they were saying. Their long pace looks good, short pace good. While probably not #1, they have made huge progress.

I think we will have more excitement in stead of the 'boring' first season. That were the times where you knew that Schumacher will probably have a hard time to qualify in the top eight, but hopefully things have changed.

O and is their some kind of link to watch the testing live...i have live updates thats all...

[segedunum]

Yeah while the laps were bad, they (well, me included) were the ones saying one can't read much into testing times, yet you were.

No........ I was looking at what the picture overall was telling us, not individual laps. Somehow everything is now hunky dory because Mercedes did a fast lap to reassure everybody that things are fine.

A lot of people might want to put a lot of stock into that glory lap (no surprise that people are - they need all the good cheer they can) but I don't. It's frankly hilarious that most people are, having tried to tell us that the multiple laps over multiple test sessions that we've seen weren't. Look at the drop-off in times once the fast lap was done. There's not much cheer to be had there........

Oh, and you don't slap an exhaust system and a front wing on to a car and claim that it's different. Frankly, Mercedes needed to confirm that everything was fine today.

[JohnsonsEvilTwin]

@segedunum

You must live in a goldfish bowl mate.

Show me one team that didnt have severe drop off after setting their fastest lap time?
Thats not specific to Mercedes so dont paint a picture that it is. The genral rule of thumb is if you do a quick lap you will pay for it, or have you not been reading about Pirelli tyre degredation? You want consistency?

Hows these apples?

1:26.017 (26)
1:26.176 (27)
1:26.317 (28)
1:26.670 (29)
1:26.714 (30)
1:26.657 (31)
1:26.538 (32)
1:27.074 (33)
1:27.092 (34)

Done yesterday, and todays mods are sure to help improve that.

There is a whole world out there seg, stop limiting your potential by remaining in that goldfish bowl....

[Ferraripilot]

Nico just set a 1:21.788

[segedunum]

Seg for Mercedes aero department anyone? you know better than an army of Aerodynamicists and Loic Bigois? Of course you do Seg, Of course you do.

For starters, Bigois simply doesn't have the greatest of track records. That whole "They know best" argument is just fresh air now, isn't it?

If you're going to use the "They know best" argument then I can quite legitimately ask why the rest of the grid is leaving Merc behind, can't I? Does their thinking count for less? Don't ask me.