Japanese Earthquake

[marekk]

Lets hope and pray there is sufficient boron concetration in cooling fluid to prevent criticality.

[WhiteBlue]

The language that the Japanes use is very vague. The reactor vessel has experienced a total loss of pressure after an explosion occurred which was not outside of the containment but inside. The logical assumption is that the core is molten and the reactor vessel is breached. Reports mention damage in the condenser pool or tank which would indicate that the explosion was not directed downwards but sidewards and that the pressure was relieved towards the turbine and the condenser. It opens the possibility that molten core material is not contained in the reactor vessel and the catch pool of the containment but outside of the containment in the turbine house. There is no design feature outside the containment which can deal with parts of a molten core.

Later reports seem to indicate that the explosion could have blown up the catch pool in the containment under the reactor vessel. This would mean that the molten core is neither contained by the reactor vessel, nor the catch pool of the containment.

So if the containment is indeed breached by substantial core material the accident may go from a level 4 to a higher 5 or 6 level. Not good news, indeed potentially very bad news.

I just checked the TEPCO website and they say that the radiation level just outside the reactor buildings is 20µSv/hour. With that in mind, I provide the following advice for anyone in the area who'd like to get a free chest x-ray:

1) Lie down on top of some x-ray film next to one of the reactor buildings.
2) Remain motionless for 50 hours - hold your breath!
3) All done! Now go get your film developed.

After the #2 explosion 8,000µSv/hour are reported. So the radiation increased 400 times. Not healthy.

[manchild]

The main issue here is that people who support nukes say something like "humanity can't replace the current need for energy with sun, wind or water energy".

That is identical if someone rich who has gone broke and started stealing to maintain his lifestyle would use lifestyle as an excuse in front of the court as something that what forced him to do it.

Can survivors in Japan now live on power reductions by groups? Yes they can.
Do we need new model of cell phone every couple of months? No.
Do we need one person going to work driving car that can take 5? No, a bus can transport 50 or 100 people to work and back with much less pollution. Trains even more.

Do we need 100.000.000 sharks being killed every year because idiots use their fins only for soup while throwing 98% of their body overboard to die in horrible way? No.

Human kind in great majority is a cancer for this planet. Everyone is now sad about people of Japan, but no one makes difference between those who have become victims from living by sword, and those who haven't been harming other people and nature.

I'm sorry about people in Japan who haven't been doing bad things to other people, nature and animals. I'm at first sorry about the children.

Am I sorry about some Tsunami killed fisherman in Japan who has been killing sharks, chopping off their fins and leaving them to die for the sake of luxurious shark fin soup? Or such dish restaurant owner, or a customer? Hell no. That's well deserved. Nature's payback for selfishness and disrespect to right of existence of other creatures. That's pure "reap what you sow". Unfortunately, it is not selective only to responsible ones.

This is perhaps the last moment in our civilization to stop, rethink, wipe away traditional crap, use as much as we need to be happy, not to use as much as we can grab at the moment without thinking of consequences.

Like most of you, I grew up when there were no cell phones, and a landline phones were used for 10, 20 years. Were we able to make phonecalls than? Yes. No one cared about design of the phone as long as it enabled making a call. The essence was more important than form. Than the big business industry started being chaotic, replacing everything each year, even several times per year.

Why is it that now all of the sudden we need new cellphone every year? That is pure fun, not our need.

Ipod 1 2 3 4 .... any cell phone maker, it's the same.

Those and similar products like new models of cars coming every year or two are not human necessity.

VW Golf 1 2 3 4 5 6 ... any car maker, it's the same.

Facelift this, upgrade that, more memory in this, more megapixel in that.

What for? That doesn't make life of people on planet any better. That only consumes the resources, makes bigger dumps, pollutes and destroys human health and environment. Such industrial-minded, profit-oriented behavior makes nuclear power plant necessary, not human desire for food, water, shelter, warmth, commodity.

Human kind doesn't need that to survive and live happily. It is the opposite - those are products of big business that cares only about multiplying of money. Business needs nuclear powerplants, or 100+HP cars that take one person from point A to point B etc. What about walking a mile? What about riding a bike for 3 miles? That gets you on spot and it is healthier, no pollution, no cost for fuel.

If it would be agreed on global scale to stop that hyper production of products we use and replace purely for fun and fashion, and if transportation would be organized not to allow personal fun polluting while driving cars, than alternative sources of energy would be more than sufficient.

What I was trying to point out is that there is a huge difference in what people really need to live happily, and what we are being told via commercials and gov. officials. If human kind chooses conformity, luxury, despite knowing the negative side-effects that come as pollution, wars, disasters, than it will eventually disappear in one final disaster.

It is pure self-destructive behavior, like perfectly healthy girl from middle class deciding to become high class prostitute in order live in luxury, while ignoring the fact that such activity will eventually ruin her life trough some deadly STD.

There are options, there are choices. Nuclear energy isn't something that can't be forgotten if people decide to forget about it, and start living more rationally, liberated from big capital and industry commercial brainwashing.


http://www.reuters.com/article/2011/03/ ... SS20110315

Radiation fears rise after blast

Japan's prime minister warned that radioactive levels had become high around an earthquake-stricken nuclear power plant after explosions at two reactors, while the French embassy in the capital warned that a low level of radioactive wind could reach Tokyo in about 10 hours.

[Pup]

It appears that the explosion was actually a failure of the torus beneath the reactor that is part of the pressure relief system. The cause of the failure is unknown, but since there was a temporary spike in radiation that coincided with the failure, my guess is that it was pressure related, and the spike was from escaping steam. The way it works is that steam can be vented from the containment into the torus, which is half-filled with water. The steam condenses and relieves pressure. My guess is that one or more of the valves which control this process ruptured. Possibly the sudden increase in pressure then ruptured the torus itself. This would explain both the drop in pressure and the spike in radiation as the steam escaped. So this does not mean that the containment is breached, and more importantly does not mean that the reactor housing is damaged.

[Agenda_Is_Incorrect]

If you think we are such a cancer, manchild, go the hell and live as you pray: abandon your "luxury" comfort and don't bore the rest of the civilization looking for a better life quality than living in caves or having to go back using writing machines because computers are such a "industrial indulgence". WTF are you doing on a F1 forum? Go kill your plants to eat, plant killer, instead of boring us.

I'm effing tired of those ecomentalists preaching other people about how bad they are for pursuing life quality and evolution while sitting back on their computers at home, with all the modern amenities. Sure, they use the "zero polution" bike, eat grass, and change their phones less often, so they must be angels and non-poluters!

On that, you are also a great humanist, manchild. You want people to die and to live s**tty lives so that the world is "saved". Saved from what, you guys and your lies? The world is not ending! And a proof you are an humanist is your opinion the fishers in Japan deserve to die. Wow, what a defence of basic human rights! Of course, if he was a greeny who took the bike to work (but travelled by plane every year to some ecological paradise, like you hypocriticals) and died on some "pacific" protest, he or she would be heros.

You say the same BS used for the last centuries from hypocrites and pot smokers trying to condemn humanity to follow its course to evolve. We have newer and newer cars, phones and everything because things EVOLVE, because our life quality EVOLVES and enables us to GET FURTHER AWAY FROM THE LIFE THE EFFING MOTHER NATURE GAVE US, A LIFE OF KILL OR GET KILLED WITHOUT LAW, RIGHTS OR ANY JUSTICE.

Can you imagine if cars wouldn't evolve how polluted the air in the cities would be? Or if energy generation wouldn't evolve (including nuclear) how much more we would be polluting to do the same? You would probably be polluting as much or even more taking a shower after riding your bike or taking the train in an unevoluted society as someone driving alone on a supersports car. That already happens BTW, isn't it amazing?

You don't NEED to buy every new thing that comes out on the market BTW. They are launched so that new buyers spend the same money and natural resources on something better and more efficient. But I guess the problem here is that you are one of those guys that has not the life standard it wishes for and starts to ideologically transform their envy as the right thing to do and become an activist of ruining other people's life. So you start to hate high standard countries like Japan and high standard living, high standard products to a point you think it's right to people who have access to this to die.

How ironic is that people like this, like you, call themselves humanists? And how ironic you wish death to Japanese people when it's one of the cleanest countries in the world, with very organized and widely used mass-transport for instance?

Go do your babble talking, hypocrite, indulgent "activist behind a personal, polluting computer" somewhere else than an F1 FORUM. Go kill plants and call the rest of us life killers. I would rather this piece of s*** World we have, with all its human and NATURAL disasters, to blow up then to live the life it initially gave us and that you want us to live. A life of subsistence, low quality, of no meaning, of limited or non existent justice.

And if this ever results in a civil war I'll be ready to give me life fighting those of you who want it to return to that. I'm sure others will too, and then I would like to see your cowardice ways to be imposed on the rest of us. It's very easy to complain about modern life sitting on a chair with electricity, human rights and advanced computers trying to arbitrarily take life quality from the others while being indulgent with yours. Then we would see if you and your extremist gaia religion people would be willing to go all the way with that. Would be willing to give their lives for that like many billions did to get were humanity is now: a s**tty, but much less s**tty place you precious mother nature gave us.

PS: Moderators, I consider that if manchild can personally attack us here on off-topic (after all he's expressly criticizing all the humans who use some kind of "unnecessary" technology, like us and him) then we can respond to him. This is off-topic session as well and if my post gets edited or removed, so his post must be as well because it is an express and generalized personal attack.

[Pup]

Hats off to you for reading that. My brain took one look at the length of his post and said 'maybe tomorrow'.

[Agenda_Is_Incorrect]

Hats off to you for reading that. My brain took one look at the length of his post and said 'maybe tomorrow'.

EDIT> I thought you were referring to my post.

BTW, I agree with you on the Nuclear Plant's safety. A huge event happened and so far noting more than worries came out of it. I totally support France in getting most of its energy from Nuclear and being able to sustain a high standard of living while polluting less than an under-developed Country.

Sure it has its problems, but what hasn't. And that energy will maybe enable us to develop safer methods in the future. I wish good luck to people in Japan and to all Countries that took the bullet and decided to take the brave and necessary compromise to go Nuclear instead of adopting hypocrite and fear full attitudes of simply considering Nuclear as a kind of a sin.

[manchild]

Agenda_Is_Incorrect first rule of every forum - comment on forum topic, not the forum member. If you disagree write counter-arguments, do not personally attack the person who thinks differently than you.

I do my best to live life that doesn't harm this planet and people, as much as I can, and I'm trying to improve myself in that every day. I'm not perfect, but at least I'm trying not to do obvious evils justifying it by fact that wast majority does them thinking only about their life, their wallet, their own backyard or country. I've switched to vegetarian diet 5 years ago, since new year I've switched to vegan diet, I don't eat, wear or use any product made of killed animal corpse. I don't support wars, dictatorships, censorship, pollution, exploitation of people and animals etc. I'm active in various humanitarian campaigns and actions.

Perhaps this can be qualified as "preaching", but I'm not preaching evil towards anyone, I'm not imposing it, and I'm not telling anyone where they should go or what they should do, or what they are - especially on this forum.

What I write is my opinion about certain issue, forums are for exchange opinions about issues, not for personal disqualifications and insults.

When I think better, you haven't deserved even this much of reply, and I don't want to go off-topic anymore simply because my opinion about nuclear energy and human mistreating of planet got you pissed.

[nipo]

I think manchild has gone too far by saying "Hell no" to the Jap fishermen. None of us here should be saying things like this. It's just 5 days from the earthquake, and disaster is still unfolding. It is a very inhumane act.

I also wish to point out one thing in particular - the oversimplification of human activity. Unless you live in a completely self-contained environment and have no communication to rest of the modern world, you automatically have a part to play in the "damage" we are causing to the environment, intentionally or not. If it can ever be called a sin, it is a collective one, not individual.

To manchild's credit, I think he pointed out a very good observation about how the current generation has been conditioned ("brainwashed" as he put it) to believe in a "happy life" that consists of too much luxury and lifestyle. Agenda's comment is not entirely fair to say if he holds this belief then he is an environmental fundamentalist and should go live in caves. Instead, I think it has dawned on us, the new generation, to be conscious about the overflow of production and to strike a balance towards a more sustainable model of human advancement.

It is a time to re-think what capitalism, which is driven by greed, is doing to the world today.

God bless everyone in Japan who has lost loved ones, homes, or the mere hope to survive.

[manchild]

The reason I've mentioned shark fin "fisherman" as an example, is because I'm angry since the action of such people with lack of any moral, lead to suffering of innocent people who have nothing to do with it. Same goes globally for nuclear power plant owners, oil companies, politicians and religious leaders who cause wars, etc.

Who will face the radiation in Japan?

Owners/shareholders of company that manufactures reactors and builds poweplants?

No.

TEPCO bosses/shareholders?

No.

Japanse politicians?

No.

Australian mining company owners/shareholders who sell uranium to TEPCO?

No.

Those who will feel the consequences will be common people who neither were asked whether they want nuclear plant near their city, and who had no profit of personal interest in their construction.


I simply can't fell any compassion to persons capable to do this:

[youtube]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TWPoSr76ub4[/youtube][youtube]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=C2UKgLsOhRM[/youtube]

Check other videos about shark finning.

[nipo]

@manchild

I have no difference with you on the topic of shark finning. I'm just saying you are a heartless person to show no compassion towards some people who might have lost lives in this terrible event.

God bless you.

[Agenda_Is_Incorrect]

manchild, I only answered to your personal attack. nipo caught my point about you going too far from being just someone expressing opinion to someone attacking others. What you said about humanity or more precisely the Japanese people was way over the line and not at all a balanced approach to the environment.

Even if the fisherman there are criminals, I don't think they deserve such punishment. This is called Human Rights, which is you don't do the one eye for one eye approach. I won't even mention the crossing line you did when you put that people there living good lives somehow deserved that too. That was what put me off and I think I'm right to be pissed. They are doing nothing wrong!

I believe most people here are aware of environmental issues and try to minimize their impact on the environment. Most also don't support dictatorships, pollution over certain levels (just like you, as you pollute as well) and such. And for that we don't need to defend a massive regress of life quality, modern amenities or a vegan diet which is strictly personal choice, as there's no need to be a vegan to be ecologically correct and as living beings we ALL do a compromise. We need to feed from live beings, be it animal or vegetal. It gets on my nerves when people kill plants and say animal killers are sinners and environment destructors. I ask you to see what it takes to grow soy for instance.

At the same time nor I think most here are defending a massive consumption of goods or a shift to whatever is the most up to date car, cell phone or computer as soon at it is released. The problem here is precisely this, as on contrary to the balance of your last post, you were explicitly implying all of the above besides an extremist vegan/green agenda is incorrect, should be imposed to everyone even if it means death and is a need instead of a personal choice. No amount of humanitarian or "humanitarian" work you do will change what you said about people deserving to die just because they pursuit a better life at the same time of being one of the cleanest populations we have on Earth.

And that current "green" attitude of imposing religious belief is what motivated my post. We are all tired of being demoralized by thinking like the thinking you did in that post for doing nothing more than our human right and duty to evolve, to search for a better living while reducing impact, not to simply abandon modern life in a blind believe this is the root of all problems and it's abandonment the solution of all problems. All that at the same time we see this same people doing exactly what they are complaining about, travelling and doing "unnecessary" things all the time and putting us as murderers and wasters because we decided to give a ride on a car or get our feeding from different living beings.

Thinking ecologically and thinking religiously are different things.

nipo, I agree massively with your second paragraph. And also that sometimes the vision of a happy life or of consumption is distorted, but to put all of current advancements and all the industrial age advancements as he did is environmental fundamentalism. Not to mention you end up trading one distorted consumption model to another. Today it's supposedly in fashion to have the latest cell phone, tomorrow having a backelite phone will be the fashion (even if it doesn't correspond to someone's need at all and becomes just as useless as some cell phone functions can be for some of us).

We should indeed review all that and look for better production and consumption models, but please don't get me started on this "green" extremism manchild wrote on that post. I'm sure my answer to it was what most people have entangled on their throats every time they see someone blaming them for having a cell phone, or a car or eating meat. It's pretty clear it's how you do and buy all that that determines wrongs or rights in human activity regarding the environment, not themselves.

EDIT: Regarding your last post, manchild, it's typical "green" bable to try to justify a breach of Human Rights. Just like nipo said, I don't like the shark fishers attitude nor I have compassion to them as people, but to actually think they deserve to die in such a terrible natural disaster and have no compassion to the lost of lives is horrible. More than what they do to the sharks if you ask me, as they are humans.

And ALL people in Japan will suffer consequences from the radiation. Rich, poor, oil industry or not. And the Japanese people asked for energy. I'm also sure many, if not most, thought Nuclear was the way to go. Now they had an accident, a NATURAL caused one. We shouldn't have this childish attitude of putting blame were there isn't just because you or me or anyone don't like Nuclear. Hell, tomorrow an earthquake could hit a vaccine factory and spread diseases through the World. Will you start blaming the vaccine industry, the population who lives a "luxurious vaccine life" and human greed? Will you say they deserved to die?

Please don't tell me you are one of those people that says you deserved it every time someone dies in a car or plane accident as well.

BTW, that sense of justice were the rich ones are always the ones to blame is also very typical and very laughable.

[nipo]

@Agenda: Very well said =D> =D>

@manchild
Just to add to the point of oversimplification of human activity, I think you have assumed the fishermen to be outright evil beings. I'm thinking everybody has a family to raise, and a living to make. Or maybe it was a family business that a son has promised his father to continue, at the latter's deathbed?

Yeah they could be greedy at the same time, but life usually just ain't that simple, is it?

I thank God if you are a person of total integrity (which you already said you are not), but please at least have mercy on the rest of us who don't live in the luxury to choose a "healthier" or "more righteous" way of living as you do.

Note: It is also a form of "brainwashing" that some of us think we have the ability to tell right from wrong about everything in a purely "objective" manner.

Anyway back to topic. There are survivors waiting to be rescued, homeless people to be helped, and volunteer groups to be cheered. Let our prayers be with them!

[manchild]

Agenda! Don't you twist my words and don't you explain how I "wish death to people in Japan"! You lack arguments and continue to attack me personally! I haven't wrote things you say I did!


Regarding "fisherman". Check the first video before condemning me.

[youtube]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TWPoSr76ub4[/youtube]

If you think that a person who puts dog as a live bait, throws him on the hook overboard into ocean in order to catch shark to cut of its fins and kicks it overboard to die in order to make profit are doing nothing wrong, and that they should be felt sorry for and granted same human rights just as other people who would never think of doing such crime to those innocent creatures, than you're hugely insulting the former victims with such equalization.

[Pup]

You guys are spending a lot of energy composing posts that will no doubt be deleted.