Post here all non technical related topics about Formula One. This includes race results, discussions, testing analysis etc. TV coverage and other personal questions should be in Off topic chat.
If you look at the orange lines based on the angle of the vanes on the right hand side, you'd expect to see them through the cut outs in the end plates, as I've sketched.
By the way, thanks for the help in uploading the images. Cheers.
@gibells - that would be the case if the strakes were straight and aligned with the centre access of the car. They are not though, they are heavily curved as can be seen in the top image. It is this curvature that means that they are hidden behind their own thickness in that first picture. It was just an unfortunately angled photo that again produced an optical illusion.
This is the main problem in trying to examine curved and complex 3d surfaces in single 2d pictures. Your eyes and intuition can deceive you, the very basis via which optical illusions exist.
myurr wrote:@gibells - that would be the case if the strakes were straight and aligned with the centre access of the car. They are not though, they are heavily curved as can be seen in the top image. It is this curvature that means that they are hidden behind their own thickness in that first picture. It was just an unfortunately angled photo that again produced an optical illusion.
This is the main problem in trying to examine curved and complex 3d surfaces in single 2d pictures. Your eyes and intuition can deceive you, the very basis via which optical illusions exist.
From the rear of the car, the strakes are moving from the outside to the inside of the diffuser, meaning that they would be MORE visible from that angle in your zoomed / enhanced shot, not less visible.
That aside, there is definitely a vertical line with what looks like light gleaning off it, and that's undeniable. I doubt it's the track, although it could be an optical illusion ;P
Forgive the rudimentary nature of this diagram, but this is what I think is happening from a 2d plan view, looking at the diffuser from above with the front of the car towards the top of the picture.
As you can see the strakes in the diffuser turn outwards towards where the photo was taken. Because of the downward angle of the camera shot you can only see the rearmost section of the strakes, which for all intents and purposes will appear as a 2d line from the angle at which they're being viewed. Hence being able to see the vertical edge of the strake in the photo, but not any 'substance' behind it.
myurr wrote:This is the main problem in trying to examine curved and complex 3d surfaces in single 2d pictures. Your eyes and intuition can deceive you, the very basis via which optical illusions exist.
+1 =D> =D>
And on the previous front wing image, the lines aren't intended to be parallel. They are intended to connect key immovable points on the wing to help the eye better take-in the image. He connected the upper corner of the endplates... it helps to show the relative location of all the pieces.
Sigh...I feel ashamed that I at first defended allowing this argument to be left in the threads.
So going off the recent test with mclaren sitting down at the bottom of the time sheets, do we guess they are sandbagging or are they seriously off the pace?
it means that finishing in the first few races may rely on a compromised exhaust solution since they're struggling to get the current design to work
with all the problems it seems they've never been able to fully guage the true potential of the design and won't know until they're able to get it all working and set-up properly, if this is even possible
N12ck wrote:So going off the recent test with mclaren sitting down at the bottom of the time sheets, do we guess they are sandbagging or are they seriously off the pace?
I don't think they are bothered in where they stand in the timesheets for testing. I don't think they have Red Bull's pace or that of Ferrari either, but they aren't down with the midfield teams.
The "routine" in testing when testing an influence of a designed part, has to be in isolation to determine it's effect. That means any changes any where else on the car at the same time, corrupts the data and the resulting measurement.
With the exhausts getting moved around, it would have to be done with the rest of the aero the same to understand the effect of that one part.
To move the exhaust to different lengths, bends, ducting exits, slotted exits, etc. unforeseen vibrations (which can crack open an exhaust pipe}, jointing points coming apart, heating of panels and mounting points not protected sufficiently are just as few examples of the failures that could occur. This is a massive overtaking to introduce this many variables, just on one part.
Mclaren probably has an understanding by now of what works and is reliable to use in the exhaust area. I hope it was worth it, as it's cost setup time that's been replaced with development time. The first races will tell the story, on the rest of the car, which IMHO has been addressed only on one day, when they ran a fairly common exhaust lay out and seemly concentrated on setup instead.
Hamilton's next day had both hydraulic and exhaust problems, so I wonder if the exhaust lay out was changed again....then changed back to Buttons layout when Hamilton set his fastest time.
"Driving a car as fast as possible (in a race) is all about maintaining the highest possible acceleration level in the appropriate direction." Peter Wright,Techical Director, Team Lotus
raymondu999 wrote:You mean like a scientific fair test, rather than testing a part in isolation, surely? So same car, just change that one part, and test?
Yes, by isolation I mean the focus on that one part's influence on the platform of the car. Adding or lessing a wing angle or changing ride height,rake etc..throws a wrench into the resulting data...
It's like doing a compound/construction tire test, it's about the tires so you don't change the setup for each set but leave it the same way for all sets of tires to focus on them and nothing else... IMHO
"Driving a car as fast as possible (in a race) is all about maintaining the highest possible acceleration level in the appropriate direction." Peter Wright,Techical Director, Team Lotus
