McLaren MP4-26 Mercedes

[murtoidf1]

Ah finally some new informations. makes a change from @ringo doodling on pictures ( just a joke ! )

This seems like a fundamental but straightforward problem, whether they can fix it in time who knows - McLaren were pretty poor when it came to exhaust work last year, so this is not a good sign.

Did the car manage to set any fast laps with the originally planned configuration, maybe that would give some small indication as to pace...


But in regards to this " they need to change their side pods, they're doing it wrong!! " and " why don;t they move the enging, thats a much better idea" Don't you think they've thought about which solution to go for?! I mean granted there's alot of bright people on this forum, but I'd imagine there are some in McLaren that work full time on designing the car.

They designed the car to be fast and on the way they must've explored and investigated many different solutions i.e the FEE. At the end of the day the reason the car isnt fast is not really due to their philosophy, but due to an unforeseen problem with the technical parts of the car.


In regards to how long it will take to get it fixed... Surely if they were intending to test a few different versions of exhaust system, there must be marginal differences in performance.. If one was far superior surely they'd have just gone with it to begin with, and only tested that?

[boci]

The shape and length are the issues apparently. As they are not round, when hot they are disforming to circular (bit like a ballon will always be round) and the length just can't cope with the stress/vibrations.

If it's true, it's good news IMO, because that clears up some things for me.

1. It was unlikely even for McLaren that they can came up with a new exhaust pipe design in 2-3 days when they realised it doesn't work in Barcelona. So that explains why they can't fix it on track. You can't do much with cracked exhaust other than change it.
2. It's an understood problem, and not some "gremlin" that appears here or there randomly which would be really a nightmare to solve.
3. It's a problem that I'm sure they can solve. Maybe it'll weight a little more.

Of course we can't be sure on that source

They've had problems with the exhaust ever since Jerez.... doesn't look like they can figure out how to fix it.

[Just_a_fan]

@ringo

So your simulation of the McLaren concept suggests lower drag (not higher as some have suggested). This, coupled with the rear wing device, might give an added advantage in the overtake zones. Also, it might make the thing more difficult to overtake for those with higher drag levels.

So they might be losing a bit in the corners but gaining a bit on the straights. This will give a slower lap time but makes for a diffcult-to-overtake car. And as commentators are wont to say: "catching is one thing, overtaking is something else".

If they can get the exhaust to work then they might claw back some of the downforce and hence lap time with little drag penalty so they make a net gain.

This makes for an exciting prospect for the season...

[ringo]

Yes the drag is lower and the velocity to the rear, at a certain height, of the car is higher.

I don't know how the behavior is in yaw. But i don't think yaw angles are high for F1 cars.

[speedsense]

I have a little clarification, just a little thing to fill the time.
The L pods should have a better pressure distribution, and create much less drag, but it doesn't account for some other things.
The L side pod has less down-force compared to the typical designs for some reason, Assuming all have the same coke bottle shape in plan view.

I am not quite sure why, (this sounds cliche) but i think the interaction with the diffuser is the reason behind getting better down force with the other taller side pods.

Looking on the picture, the L side pod in fact has much less drag,and better centre of pressure, due to the distribution, Maybe that's why the car feels good to the drivers?

But looking near the tail of the floor, we can see that the other side pod is creating more pressure on it. This is where most of the force is, and it is compounded by the fact that this is the region above where the lowest pressure is under the floor.

At the front, L side pod has smaller high pressure region, so it help explain the lower drag as well.

I did a few models of different side pod curves. All the same with only a difference with the top surface. The L pod is pretty good for the low drag benefit, because these other designs aren't far away in raw down-force. It's just one design that has a huge difference, i wont say what that curve is

The lift to drag ratio is actually very good. Better than 2 other designs bar the 1 special one. But for raw down force it has slightly less than the 2 typical designs.


The L side pod also has another benefit, it has better flow to the beam wing, ie the velocities are slight higher.


Mclaren's solution is not equally as tight round the back as the others, so it may not see this benefit? but overall i think the L side pod is a good design if they can trim it down.
If it is super refined it wont have the most raw down-force, but it will have the least drag by far.
An taking the beam wing into account it can allow better down-force to be created elsewhere on the car.

this may have to go in another thread for further analysis, but it relates to this car specially.

Is Mclaren after straight line speed vs the RB tact full DF? Championships have been won on both sides of the coin... isn't it Mclaren that tends to top the charts in top speed at most racetracks, RB?
The questions of ARW, KERS and degrading tires make straight line speed something to look at again. It's been a while for that comparison or use in F1. It always been there but to actually focus on it again after so many years.. kinda raises an eyebrow...IMHO

[kalinka]

They've had problems with the exhaust ever since Jerez.... doesn't look like they can figure out how to fix it.

Exactly. I was just saying that those few days in Barcelone sure wasn't enough to solve that. Yes, they failed to solve it between Jerez and Barcelona too, but I'm sure they had so much other work too to cope with, so it's not unusual. They have now another 2 weeks to figure it out until Oz. I'm just glad it's not something mysterious. These cars are so complex, sometimes you can't even find the source of the error.
As thestig84 says, the source of info is quite good,so that's why I'm optimistic a bit.

[Just_a_fan]

Yes the drag is lower and the velocity to the rear, at a certain height, of the car is higher.

I don't know how the behavior is in yaw. But i don't think yaw angles are high for F1 cars.

Interesting. I don't think yaw is an issue - it has been very vocally raised by one forum member but other than that...

[Just_a_fan]

They've had problems with the exhaust ever since Jerez.... doesn't look like they can figure out how to fix it.

Exactly. I was just saying that those few days in Barcelone sure wasn't enough to solve that.

Presumably they can run this issue in the engine dyno room if they need to get the thing representatively hot so lack of track running per se shouldn't be too bad.

[bot6]

Ringo -> Did you keep the same frontal area for each sidepod shape or just cut out the top bit to make the L shape?

[kalinka]

Presumably they can run this issue in the engine dyno room if they need to get the thing representatively hot so lack of track running per se shouldn't be too bad.

Yes, but...( I'm not trying to be smartass here, just wondering ):

1. Maybe it's not an overheat problem but vibration or torsion forces? Now the exhaust pipes are not so free like in previous seasones, they're esentially anchored to floor/chassis. I don't know if they can put the whole rear end to the dyno..it's unlikely.
2. Even if they can run it like that, you can't simulate some real world vibrations/torsional forces. I know they have a device to simulate the track effects on suspension, but not with running engine if I'm correct.
They've been able to run it some 30-40 laps...it's not like that you reach some temp and game over...it must be a connection point between a chassis and an exhaust pipe, or the pipes itself.

[Just_a_fan]

Good points kalinka. I guess we'll know whether they can do these things when we see what they bring to Australia and how well it works (or otherwise).

If any team could put the car on a 7 post rig and run the engine too it would be McLaren...(not that I think they would do it, of course, because it's just not worth the effort designing and building such a facility in the first place).

[kakogohrena]

compare front wing MP4-26 and RB7

animated

[Hangaku]

compare front wing MP4-26 and RB7
animated

A fairer comparison can be made when the car isn't in a corner, however this still does show how much lower the front wing on the RB7 is.

I would expect that though, considering the need to direct and energise as much air through the sidepod cutouts as possible - McLaren want to direct some of the air higher than the other teams. For this reason, I suspect that we're going to see quite a few different front wings from McLaren this year...

Edit: removed quoted image

[Poleman]

compare front wing MP4-26 and RB7

In the comparison pic above the McLaren runs the 2010 spec wing(u can notice the endplates).Its the newer one that they ran the flex measurement gizmos on,therefore the comparison about flex is invalid.The only thing that we can agree is that the MP4-26 runs the FW considerably higher.

[RichardHH]

Sorry to bring this up again, but I just read an interesting statement in an article on a german F1 news site reguarding this FW setup. The basic statement of the article was that Alonso believes that McL will be fighting for podium finishes. But what caught my eye was a rather side note on the FW bulb nose:

I know we were discussing how this setup should work and what it's purpose was. In this article they state that this is not to measure anything, but to actually deform the front wing using actuators in a way that RB/Ferrari does naturally. That explains the stiff rods in comparison to the ropes that RB used. McL supposedly have no clue (maybe that was a bit hard) how to use the flex in an appropriate manner, or better are lacking the knowledge as to where they need the wing to flex to to maximize the advantages. So seeing them starting the tryouts and measurements so late I guess it will be another while before we can see a new FW that will incorporate a flex like the others. But it is good to see that they are on the right track... even if it is a little late.

source:
http://www.motorsport-total.com/f1/news ... 31515.html