McLaren MP4-26 Mercedes

[raymondu999]

A big part of which is undoubtedly because they redid the thing so that most of the sidepod intake was in the wake of the front tyres anyways.

[segedunum]

Interesting. I don't think yaw is an issue - it has been very vocally raised by one forum member but other than that...

I think it was on a recent episode on the flying lap webcast where they said most of the windtunnel work now days is done at an certain angle of yaw. I agree dont think its any sort of issue.

Actually, if you'd watched the Flying Lap episode with Willem Toet you would have gathered just how much of a problem simulating yaw is for CFD and windtunnels. Yes, you can simulate some sliding and a few degrees of yaw but there are still a lot of things you don't know.

There was a long part before the CFD yaw bit where he talks a bit about CFD, what's still difficult and then talks about what you can't do in a windtunnel like simulating the airflow when the front wheels are turned with steering lock and where the angle of airflow at the front and rear of the car are different. This is really the kind of thing I was getting at. He also touches on a few of those really difficult pesky variables as well, such as crosswinds.

Yaw is a massive issue because it changes the aerodynamic characteristics of the car in sometimes very subtle but large ways. The objective of downforce is to get a car through a corner so you need to understand what is happening in them, and yaw is a part of going through a corner. To suggest otherwise is really rather silly.

[Just_a_fan]

Still waiting for you to provide any evidence for your "theory" other than your continual "it's obvious" rubbish...

[london_racer11]

What happened to this all new front wing that "dramaticly" improved the performance??? http://news.bbc.co.uk/sport1/hi/motorsp ... 417463.stm
Very confusing how they're saying the car has no downforce, yet the video says that the downforce is much much better? please help

[Caerdroia]

What happened to this all new front wing that "dramaticly" improved the performance??? http://news.bbc.co.uk/sport1/hi/motorsp ... 417463.stm
Very confusing how they're saying the car has no downforce, yet the video says that the downforce is much much better? please help

That was a comical video for Comic Relief in the UK, of which a red nose is a symbol. Wasn't referring to the nose of the actual car.

[ringo]

Yaw simulation, relating to airflow is interesting because a yaw flow condition is really a transient condition. Not only considering where the car is actually going relative to the heading of the car, but if you take into consideration the air speed and little elemental strips of air as they pass along the car, it's pretty complicated what is actually taking place with those sections of air as they traverse along the car at a certain rate, while the car's heading is changing at a certain rate as well.
Solidworks can only do steady state yaw condition, which is basically a crosswind.
Yaw may be a problem and it be not. It depends on a lot of variables.

[Shaddock]

Indeed, if the rods could flex the wing, the wing would already be flexible enough to do so under it's own weight.

Er, no. If the wing only generates X downforce but needs X+Y force to deflect then the rods would need to supply force Y in order to give the necessary deflection.

That is to say, McLaren might only be able to design and build a wing that deflects at 1deg / X+Ynewtons but the wing never generates more than Xnewtons at the required speed and thus gives less than the required deflection. Thus the rods would provide the supplemental force.

However, the device is obviously a measuring device if for no other reason than active front wing aero is illegal...

That's not the point I was trying to make. My point was that I don't believe such a thing could be achieved in such a small package.

I'm not questioning the laws of physics, but I am questioning that if this was nose bump was doing what is alleged in the "article" (that motors were extending and retracting the rods) exactly how much torque do you think those little motors would need to generate to do so?

A small motor linked to a hydraulic pump would do it. How (extra) much force do they want to apply to the wing tips? 100-250kg? Those rods look plenty stong enough for that as they are mostly is compression.

[PlatinumZealot]

Yes, I agree.

Even regular 1/2 inch mild steel rods would do the job. much less 4 thick cold rolled high tensile strength 4340 that they are using.

[ianwit]

Hi, I've looked at this thread with interest over the last few week. I think the hump and rods are purely a measuring device; if it was a device to exert pressure on the ends of the wings I think it would be pointless unless they really are floundering (which is a worry). If they don't have the technology to get the wings to flex what's the point of replicating it by mechanical simulation?
I personally think the RB trick is in the uprights/nosecone(flex)and the suspension.

[dougskullery]

Interesting speculation from Mark Hughes from this week's print Autosport:

"Rewind a few weeks, when [MP4-26] was expected to be competitive and there was a lot of attention around quite where its trick exhaust layout exited, for all that could be seen were U-bends.
It is out understanding that all those spaghetti pipes meet together in a ceramic box under the rear of the gearbox, and in line with the diffuser's central spat. Furthermore, te pipes divide into smaller pipes, pointing in various directions in an effort at energising the maximum area of the underfloor for downforce creation. The sequentially smaller pipes are necessary in order to minimise power losses from the complex routing of the system. Maintaining the optimum range of pressure waves to scavenge the burnt gases from the pipe is essential for maximising power. With a route so convoluted, the only way to do this is to strategically vary the diameter of the pipe along its winding length. The creation of the box and the myriad of small pipe exits has created the opportunity of spreading the routing of the gas around different parts of the floor."

Fascinating if true, and McLaren must be working around the clock in order to fix whatever's broken with what sounds like a fundamental aspect of the car's design.

[imightbewrong]

Interesting speculation from Mark Hughes from this week's print Autosport:

"Rewind a few weeks, when [MP4-26] was expected to be competitive and there was a lot of attention around quite where its trick exhaust layout exited, for all that could be seen were U-bends.
It is out understanding that all those spaghetti pipes meet together in a ceramic box under the rear of the gearbox, and in line with the diffuser's central spat. Furthermore, te pipes divide into smaller pipes, pointing in various directions in an effort at energising the maximum area of the underfloor for downforce creation. The sequentially smaller pipes are necessary in order to minimise power losses from the complex routing of the system. Maintaining the optimum range of pressure waves to scavenge the burnt gases from the pipe is essential for maximising power. With a route so convoluted, the only way to do this is to strategically vary the diameter of the pipe along its winding length. The creation of the box and the myriad of small pipe exits has created the opportunity of spreading the routing of the gas around different parts of the floor."

Fascinating if true, and McLaren must be working around the clock in order to fix whatever's broken with what sounds like a fundamental aspect of the car's design.

What happened to one single exit per bank?

[bot6]

I thought that only two exhaust exits were allowed by the rules?

shaddock, n_smikle -> those rods are clearly not strong enough to carry 200 kilos in compression. I doubt they could carry 20. In pure compression sure, but they would buckle before that.

This is a purely passive measuring device.

[dougskullery]

Interesting speculation from Mark Hughes from this week's print Autosport:

"Rewind a few weeks, when [MP4-26] was expected to be competitive and there was a lot of attention around quite where its trick exhaust layout exited, for all that could be seen were U-bends.
It is out understanding that all those spaghetti pipes meet together in a ceramic box under the rear of the gearbox, and in line with the diffuser's central spat. Furthermore, te pipes divide into smaller pipes, pointing in various directions in an effort at energising the maximum area of the underfloor for downforce creation. The sequentially smaller pipes are necessary in order to minimise power losses from the complex routing of the system. Maintaining the optimum range of pressure waves to scavenge the burnt gases from the pipe is essential for maximising power. With a route so convoluted, the only way to do this is to strategically vary the diameter of the pipe along its winding length. The creation of the box and the myriad of small pipe exits has created the opportunity of spreading the routing of the gas around different parts of the floor."

Fascinating if true, and McLaren must be working around the clock in order to fix whatever's broken with what sounds like a fundamental aspect of the car's design.

What happened to one single exit per bank?

My guess is that the two exhaust 'exits' are what vent into the ceramic box. Any smaller pipes after that are no longer considered exhausts, from the perspective of the regulations.

[bonjon1979]

When is an exhaust not an exhaust, then again when is a slot not a hole. Its no wonder Mclaren struggled to get this to work, it seems like quite a crazy complicated idea with a lot of scope for things to go wrong. It also kind of makes sense of Ross Brawn's comments about the U-shape being integral for their design and exhaust layout. I guess that means that those small holes at the bib of the car could be exhaust outlets, as could any number of the other holes spotted around the car.

[shelly]

[/just kidding] Ok now from Mark Hughes we know that Mclaren has in fact built a hovercraft disguised as F1 car [/just kidding]