McLaren MP4-26 Mercedes

[David1976]

I personally think the RB trick is in the uprights/nosecone(flex)and the suspension.

I agree. I have thought this for some time. Hopefully the new deflection tests will reduce the Red Bull advantage this season.

[gibells]

From Scarbs on twitter:

>OK I've just got some clarification on exhausts and materials from Sam Michael and its not good for McLaren

>Sam Michael "Any ducting that is used to "pipe" hot exhaust gas through the car is classified as exhaust" Pyrosic is only allowed under the heatshielding exception rule

>Sam Michael "so it must be made from the permitted materials list" and Pyrosic is not on the list

>So either; there's been a clarification on the rules preventing this system being used, or the Autosport article wasn't accurate.

>So McLaren cannot beat the 2-outlet rule and cannot make the chamber from ceramic carbon fibre (Pyrosic)

Hence why McLaren won't be able to use their fancy single exhaust silencer thingy.

[gray41]

For a while now, people have been wondering exactly what McLaren's technical boffins have been up to with the design of the MP4-26, which had no immediately-apparent exhaust outlets. Where rumours of Renault's exhaust solution broke just hours after the car launch, it would appear that Woking have been even trickier than Enstone.

Scuttlebutt suggests that McLaren have managed to find a loophole in the regulations that allows them to have mutiple exhaust outlets. The exhaust moves from the engine to a ceramic "box" behind the gearbox, which then splits off into several smaller tubes that route the exhaust gasses across the whole diffuser, thus applying the concept of an exhaust-blown diffuser to the car by cleverly stepping around it.

Spinning out from this is the suggestion that McLaren's lack of pace has nothing to do with an absence downforce. Rather, the suggestion has been that the tubes used in the ceramic box - known as the "Octopus" - are too small and too long. They are supposedly deforming when exposed to the incredible heat of the exhaust, and they cannot handle the strain of forces exerted on them. If this is indeed true and McLaren can engineer a solution, the the MP4-26 could be incredibly competitive. If not, then the entire car will be compromised because an alternative solution will be needed and planned upgrades will be rendered useless.

I stress this is all just rumour right now, but if it's true, then I can see the FIA banning it at the end of the year. Or sooner if Ferrari complain about it.


Part of the problem is that McLaren apparently wanted to use material called "pyrosic" to manufacture the exhaust systems. It's a next-generation lightweight alloy that can easily withstand the kind of high temperatures produced by superheated exhaust fumes. But the FIA has apparently said no, and put pyrosic on the list of banned materials (most of which - like beryllium alloys used in engine manufacture in the late 1990s - seem to have been found by McLaren), because it could cost as much as twenty thousand Euros for a single exhaust manifold. While it has obvious benefits, it's simply too expensive in its current state to be used.

And a deforming exhaust could easily cost McLaren a second. Each of the exhaust outlets would be blowing exhaust gases over a particular area of the diffuser in a particular manner. If those outlets are deforming with the heat, then their profile is changing. If their profile is changing, the exhaust is hitting the diffuser in a different manner to what was intended. The effect is magnified because the entire diffuser is exposed to the exhaust gas bousing off it at the wrong vector. This will alter the rear-end aero dramatically - so much so that McLaren are lucky they've only lost a second.




PRISONER MONKEYS POSTED THIS ON F1 FANATIC I JUST WANTED TO BRING IT TO TIS FORUM TO HEAR SOME OPINIONS

[tok-tokkie]

OK. So they can't use pyrosic & they can only have one exhaust exit per bank of cylinders. So make a pipe out of titanium (or inconel) which ends on each side in a wide thin fan shaped exit spanning the same area as the (conjectured) many little pyrosic pipes. Can have bracing inside to guide the exhaust streams and hold the top & bottom together.

[Holm86]

I dont get why PyroSic is banned. They say its because its too expensive. But on PyroSic's own homepage they say that one of the advantages is that it is cheap an easy to manifacture??

http://www.high-temperature-composites. ... rokarb.htm

[gridwalker]

"Cheap" is a relative measure : Pyrosic might be cheap when compared to a rival proprietary-brand material, but expensive when compared to bog standard Carbon Fibre, Kevlar, Titanium, etc ... what are the manufacturers making the comparison with when they claim Pyrosic is cheap?

I am no materials expert, but I know marketing-speak when I see it!

[RedTzar]

Without this pyrosic material McLaren could be left up the creek if these rumours are at all accurate. If the Mp4-26 has been running normal materials through testing (hence the poor times) that suggests to me they haven't found a substitute material. Can anyone clarify whether the need to use alternate materials means the exhaust gases are hotter or have more energy than normal? I'm no expert in this area.

[Just_a_fan]

One wonders why this was suddenly "clarified" so late in the day. McLaren usually chat to Whiting (as do all of the teams) as they go along so I doubt they've designed this whole thing on the off-chance that the FIA / scrutineers would accept it at the first race.

It smacks of inter-team politics...

[Florio]

One wonders why this was suddenly "clarified" so late in the day. McLaren usually chat to Whiting (as do all of the teams) as they go along so I doubt they've designed this whole thing on the off-chance that the FIA / scrutineers would accept it at the first race.

It smacks of inter-team politics...

Exactly what I was thinking, especially as it is such a major and costly system to redesign when/if FIA ban it.

[Shrieker]

It doesn't sound good. The rumuours that RBR were in breach of the budget cap (or gentleman's agreement - whichever way you want to put it), and now this. The teams will always find a way to spend any dime they can get ahold of. So it's nonsense and a bullshit excuse to ban a material claiming it's expensive.

Expensive compared to what ? They (the teams) are already pouring tons of money into everything !!! If they can't spend it for something specific, they'll spend it for something else, it's that simple.

[PlatinumZealot]

I thought that only two exhaust exits were allowed by the rules?

shaddock, n_smikle -> those rods are clearly not strong enough to carry 200 kilos in compression. I doubt they could carry 20. In pure compression sure, but they would buckle before that.

This is a purely passive measuring device.

How do you know 200 kilos on each rod is required to bend (not break) the wing?

You are saying that there is 1600 kilograms of force lifting up that dolphin nose? come better than that.

[hollowBallistix]

It's infuriating that the FIA have banned Pyrosic for cost reasons, regardless of the material cost, if a manufacturer finds a clever way to use new materials and they come under the budget imposed on each team for the racing year then there should be no problem !!

It's probably been banned because some "other" teams have found out about the exhaust concept that McLaren are trying to run that relies on this material & have winged to the FIA about it !!!

I'm getting sick of this sport killing innovation !!!

[i70q7m7ghw]

It's infuriating that the FIA have banned Pyrosic for cost reasons, regardless of the material cost, if a manufacturer finds a clever way to use new materials and they come under the budget imposed on each team for the racing year then there should be no problem !!

It's probably been banned because some "other" teams have found out about the exhaust concept that McLaren are trying to run that relies on this material & have winged to the FIA about it !!!

I'm getting sick of this sport killing innovation !!!

Agreed, looks like Sam Micheal from Williams is prime suspect.

We can pretty much disregards Scarbs' quotes from Sam Micheal, I can't see how someone from a competative team is going to say it's legal.

Just on the topic of multiple exhuasts. We haven't seen McLaren's system yet. What's to say the exits don't look like Renaults which have little splitters inside the exhuast pipe, are those 2 exits or 4?

[murtoidf1]

It's infuriating that the FIA have banned Pyrosic for cost reasons, regardless of the material cost, if a manufacturer finds a clever way to use new materials and they come under the budget imposed on each team for the racing year then there should be no problem !!

It's probably been banned because some "other" teams have found out about the exhaust concept that McLaren are trying to run that relies on this material & have winged to the FIA about it !!!

I'm getting sick of this sport killing innovation !!!

Agreed, looks like Sam Micheal from Williams is prime suspect.

We can pretty much disregards Scarbs' quotes from Sam Micheal, I can't see how someone from a competative team is going to say it's legal.

Just on the topic of multiple exhuasts. We haven't seen McLaren's system yet. What's to say the exits don't look like Renaults which have little splitters inside the exhuast pipe, are those 2 exits or 4?

Agree with the killing of innovation, Seems like a great idea thats shot down for no reason.. Beryllium anyone?

Where is the source for this stuff?

I just wonder how McLaren could make something which is illegal out of an also illegal material..

Wouldnt they have asked for clarification early on, like what they did with the F duct

[Owen.C93]

A bit frustrating but you can't really be too annoyed. Lets hope McLaren find a way. Although considering they could barely get over 10 laps before they had to retire, it seems unlikely it will last a weekend.