Brake bias

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Jersey Tom
Jersey Tom
166
Joined: 29 May 2006, 20:49
Location: Huntersville, NC

Re: Brake bias

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The CG moves forward? Maybe, but not by much. The whole 'load transfer' thing is a bit more pronounced.

Don't think I'd agree with the shift assessment either. I'd say it's the opposite. In my experience if a driver hits the brakes hard, waits, then bunches some shifts... they are trying to let the revs drop sufficiently before their first shift so there isn't wild engine braking. Then you're safe to bang down to whatever gear you need, and off you go.
Grip is a four letter word. All opinions are my own and not those of current or previous employers.

Sayshina
Sayshina
1
Joined: 04 Mar 2011, 21:58

Re: Brake bias

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What I meant was that the CP will try to overtake the CG. When this happens you lose static stability and the car, or plane for that matter, starts wanting to swap ends.

Normally, under braking you're downshifting as soon as the tire regains stability. I'll be honest, I was a Rosberg type rider and not so much a thinking about it guy.

But, hmm, alright, if you're waiting for low revs you'll have to increase rear bias to compensate. You get significantly less engine braking for the first few shifts, but you still need to be at your target rpm on the last shift, so you're in almost exactly the same place, but you've lost a little bit of front braking. The last part doesn't actually apply to almost any other formulae, but if F1 it'd count.

I don't see how that could help your tires, although I don't see how it could hurt either.

I don't see an advantage to doing that, and since there are several other drivers using the same engine and at least 1 using the same chassis not doing that I'd be tempted to bet it would cost you lap time. Nothing like a 1/10 per corner or anything, but maybe half a 1/10 per lap.

On bikes, I'd:
1 tap the rear brake to keep the tail down
2 get hard on the fronts till the feedback through the bars said there isn't anything left
3 go through some gears basically letting the rear tell me when to shift
4 throw the bike over on my knee. At this point the bike doesn't want to turn and the front starts sliding
5 use a combo of engine and rear braking to get the rear sliding
6 as the rear comes around (we're talking inches here) the bike slows and weight starts to transfer back toward the rear
7 the front starts to hook up and turn in
8 I adjust the rear slide to A: make sure nothing hooks up too fast cause high sides hurt, and B: get pointed back to the line if I'm off for any reason.

Now, I recognize it's always dangerous to make comparisons between formulae, and all the more between vehicle types, but it's not that dangerous. We do know that F1 drivers slide their cars around, some more than others. The 2 drivers mentioned above happen to be among the more agressive sliders. And nobody is talking about dirt tracking here. We also know that mid corner understeer in conjunction with early and late corner oversteer is a fairly common problem among F1 cars.

We would routinely use the rear brake to control the back. In a car with no separate controls I can't see any reason you wouldn't try using the engine braking to throw the rear end out and force the car toward the apex when it's naturally wanting to push toward the outside. I would assume as with bikes that just stepping the tail out wouldn't automatically get your turned in, but I would also assume that the same tricks could be used (minus body mass shifting) to get some weight back onto the rears.

Now I'm curious to know if they're doing it on many corners or just a couple. And I'm wondering just how much difference we're talking here say between Hamilton and Button.

itdontgo
itdontgo
2
Joined: 24 Apr 2014, 09:13

Re: Brake bias

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I know this is old but as a former single seater racer we'd move the bias rearward on an incline and forward on a descent. If you take it to it's extremes tipping the car on it's nose (like going downhill) would put more weight on the front and tipping it on it's rear would put more weight on the rear.

If you didn't adjust it you'd lock the fronts uphill and be all twitchy downhill as you under-rotated the rears.

Per
Per
35
Joined: 07 Mar 2009, 18:20
Location: Delft, the Netherlands

Re: Brake bias

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Most F1 tracks are quasi-flat, this is not the main reason for brake bias adjustment throughout the lap. As mentioned on the first page of the topic, the reason for adjusting brake bias is mainly the different approach speeds to different corners.

At high speed, there is more downforce, hence you can brake harder, hence there is more weight transfer. It follows that at high speed, you want a more forward brake bias.

Spoutnik
Spoutnik
6
Joined: 03 Feb 2015, 19:02

Re: Brake bias

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You can change the brakes bias for saving the tyres also, no ?