Is McLaren really off the pace?

[volarchico]

...
Martin is simply having to fight fires around the sponsors here and dampen the panic down ahead of Melbourne. There'll inevitably be more fire-fighting afterwards when we see just how far behind they actually are.

And how far behind are they? Less than a week before we know!

[FW17]

McLAREN MISSING ALONSO?

I am not talking about the 0.6 sec he brings but ability to steer development of the car with clear feedback to improve the car. Mclaren were not at their prime when FA moved in but quickly got into the job of evolutionary development through the year with small iterations to the car. This could also be hardwork of PDLR and LH but they seem to have gone into some radical design iterations since 2009.

Alonso entered Ferrari in a situation were Mclaren were in 2007 and he has turned the team in a similar fashion. For whatever reason the small development inputs worked through the year unlike Mclaren. It is almost as if Mclaren engineers are too eager to experiment solutions on a race track without much concern for the drivers voice. FA and MS are similar is some ways that they will not put up with an engineering dept that is experimenting with solutions which does not benefit their driving style.

Small evolutionary design inputs can be achieved only with precise inputs from the driver else engineers focus will turn to experimenting with erratic design ideas which gives drivers a hard time in getting used to.

Mclaren also have the problem of trying to design a car that is middle ground for both drivers. LH who will drive anything which is very difficult for engineers to develop the car to make it faster. JB is too picky and has not proved to lead in development of the car to date.

Tough time for Mclaren, maybe time for LH to throw some tantrums as in 2007 to get the team behind him again.

[raymondu999]

In all fairness though, while we see Lewis can manhandle whose tail wants to wag all over the place, I suspect this means that he won't be able to give much in the way of good feedback. He would more easily just slide around the track rather than give feedback. I guess this would be so, no? I mean, to give something feedback (ie tell someone where the weak point/problem is) you first need to feel like you have a problem. Whereas Lewis will not treat a malhandling car as a problem.

[donskar]

LH might not be good at providing feedback (might), but JB is.

[raymondu999]

The way I see it to be a good car developer you'll need a good feel of what's lacking, know what you want, and know how to articulate it. I honestly don't see the first one in Hamilton, as he'll just drive around problems. At least he has so far, in balanced cars (-22), and also tail-waggy cars (-24)

[CHT]

LH might not be good at providing feedback (might), but JB is.

Didnt mclaren just got Pedro back as tester?

[Just_a_fan]

The way I see it to be a good car developer you'll need a good feel of what's lacking, know what you want, and know how to articulate it. I honestly don't see the first one in Hamilton, as he'll just drive around problems. At least he has so far, in balanced cars (-22), and also tail-waggy cars (-24)

Button has stated that Hamilton is much better in a 'bad' car than he is so you may be right. It has also been said that Jim Clarke did the same sort of thing too.

[Just_a_fan]

and now they expect to be a second a lap faster than they were in testing with a 'simpler' exhaust system, which they also tried during testing incidentally? They did, afterall, try several different layouts.

Maybe they're doing what you've wanted them to do all along - maybe they've just copied Red Bull's solution. After all, we all know that Newey is God and that Red Bull are the keepers of the One True Way.

[ringo]

It will be difficult to copy redbull.
They can't set the exhaust like this:

because of the low U side pods.

It will be interesting to see what they will do.

[PlatinumZealot]

LH might not be good at providing feedback (might), but JB is.

So.. why is the car Never suited to Jenson then? Too much feedback?

for one Hamilton is much more mechanically inclined than Button. That is why he understands an unbalanced car. So there is not much unnecessary feedback from the Hamilton, he doesn't need to whinge about every second. The only feedback Hamilton needs to give is to get the car faster not more comfy...

...

Looking forward the the balance changes of the '26 in the long stints. Lets see how Button manages that eh...

[mx_tifoso]

Please keep the fanboy banter out of discussions, it literally kills too many threads. Ask me how I know.

[dren]

It will be difficult to copy redbull.
They can't set the exhaust like this:

because of the low U side pods.

It will be interesting to see what they will do.

That's the F150...

[mx_tifoso]

He knows that, but the RBR and Ferrari exhausts are the same setup so without images of the RB7 version this image will have to do.

[segedunum]

It will be difficult to copy redbull.
They can't set the exhaust like this......because of the low U side pods.

It will be interesting to see what they will do.

That's the point I've made elsewhere. These U shaped sidepods give with one hand and take away with another, and what's taken away isn't always equal to what they give. I just don't see the point in them.

[myurr]

It will be difficult to copy redbull.
They can't set the exhaust like this......because of the low U side pods.

It will be interesting to see what they will do.

That's the point I've made elsewhere. These U shaped sidepods give with one hand and take away with another, and what's taken away isn't always equal to what they give. I just don't see the point in them.

And yet you won't predict zero wins for the team... so either you don't really believe that the concept is as flawed as you like to tell everyone, or you're scared of being wrong and us being able to point out in the future that one of your sage like predictions was demonstrably wrong.