Australian GP 2011 - Albert Park, 24-27 March

[nipo]

Massa was defending Button like crazy, Alonso caught up, suddenly Massa pushes Button wide into making that fateful trip off track. Then all of a sudden Massa is not defending any more and was so very powerless against Alonso.

Final outcome - Alonso finished ahead of Button. Drive-through could have been an unexpected bonus, but the intention was very clear.

I didn't think this way when I was watching the race (was falling asleep a bit, watching the replay after midnight), but now you pointed it out, it seems blatantly obvious.

Which is sad. If I had doubts before I've now made up my mind 100% - From now on I am a former SF fan.

[nacho]

Massa didn't look very cheerful all weekend, if you look at the photos he looks miserable.

[Halgovern]

IT'S OUR DAY BOYS, LIVE IT UP!

[i70q7m7ghw]

He's Alonso's bitch now, he hasn't got a hope in hell of fighting for the title as long as Alonso is there. I would like to see him and Rob Smedley leave and go to another team, Sauber could have been an option, looks unlikely now.

[Pandamasque]

Why have such an obstinate position on an overtaking maneuver? I thought we were supposed to be encouraging overtaking, not punishing it?

Oh excuse me officer. My parents always encouraged me to do well in life, so I robbed this bank.

Because it's against the rules, that's why. Life is fundamentally unfair, at least we have sport where things can be fair relatively easily. Why ruin the fun there? Winning is no fun if achieved by cheating. It wouldn't be for me at least.

And I don't think we need more passing. We need more battles!

[i70q7m7ghw]

Three driver's notably drove beyond the white lines in this race. One was punished.

Button & Massa outside of the lines:

Vettel outside:

1st image the car on the left was Button cutting the corner

2nd image you can see the yellow line right???? you can leave the track there and Vettel didn t gain a position unlike Button

Please quote the part of the rules that says you can leave the track at Turn 4. It's very clear Vettel did gain a position, he was behind Button in Turn 3, and ahead of him in Turn 5. Simple fact is, if that line had been a 6 foot concrete wall he wouldn't have been able to pass Button in the way he did.

I don't think Vettel should have recieved a penalty, I think the flaw is in the circuit design. Gravel trap? Astroturf? Sleeping Policemen? Polystyrene Blocks? I don't know what the answer is. Perhaps just extend the track out in to the run off? According to all the arm chair racing drivers here, the fastest line through turns 3,4 & 5 is to stay inside the white lines, so the drivers wouldn't use that area under normal circumstances, it would just become an overtaking line.

[Tamburello]

Why have such an obstinate position on an overtaking maneuver? I thought we were supposed to be encouraging overtaking, not punishing it?

Oh excuse me officer. My parents always encouraged me to do well in life, so I robbed this bank.

Because it's against the rules, that's why. And I don't think we need more passing. We need more battles!

That's not true. It's against your interpretation of the rules, it is clearly not against the interpretation of the rules by the stewards, just as the double diffuser was not against the interpretation of the rules according to the FIA and some teams whilst it was against the interpretation of the rules according to other teams.

Guess who won at the end of the day?

They didn't call anyone out who went over the lines at turn 4 the whole weekend so it was fair game to do so and all the teams knew it. End of story. On to the next event and the next cause for useless pedantries.

[andrew]

He's Alonso's bitch now, he hasn't got a hope in hell of fighting for the title as long as Alonso is there. I would like to see him and Rob Smedley leave and go to another team, Sauber could have been an option, looks unlikely now.

Amen to that! I've been saying the same thing for ages. Back in 2002 he couldn't stop crashing his Sauber, spent 2003 being the Ferrari test driver (with a bit of tutoring from some German chap apparently) came back in 2004 and kept getting better and better. He was the best team mate Schumacher has ever had and gave him good run for his money on several occasions and then should have won the championship in 2008. He made the least mistakes that year but Ferrari let him down at a crucial moment (Singapore pitstop!). Now he is well and truly Alonso's lap dog.

Definately deserves and is capable of better. Given his accident in 2009 his confidence will have taken a huge knock. With Teflonso riding roughshod over him his confidence does not appear to be getting a chance to return.

If I had doubts before I've now made up my mind 100% - From now on I am a former SF fan.

I am too. When they paid off Raikkonen and hired Alonso I was struggling but after the the German Gp I was 100% against Ferrari.

[Tamburello]

Three driver's notably drove beyond the white lines in this race. One was punished.

Button & Massa outside of the lines:

Vettel outside:

1st image the car on the left was Button cutting the corner

2nd image you can see the yellow line right???? you can leave the track there and Vettel didn t gain a position unlike Button

Please quote the part of the rules that says you can leave the track at Turn 4. It's very clear Vettel did gain a position, he was behind Button in Turn 3, and ahead of him in Turn 5. Simple fact is, if that line had been a 6 foot concrete wall he wouldn't have been able to pass Button in the way he did.

I don't think Vettel should have recieved a penalty, I think the flaw is in the circuit design. Gravel trap? Astroturf? Sleeping Policemen? Polystyrene Blocks? I don't know what the answer is. Perhaps just extend the track out in to the run off? According to all the arm chair racing drivers here, the fastest line through turns 3,4 & 5 is to stay inside the white lines, so the drivers wouldn't use that area under normal circumstances, it would just become an overtaking line.

You don't have to do anything so long as the stewards are clear on allowing the drivers to go over the lines at a certain point, and everyone is aware of it - as was the case at turn 4 at Albert Park. Gee whiz!!

[Fil]

Turn 4... I think the flaw is in the circuit design. Gravel trap? Astroturf? Sleeping Policemen? Polystyrene Blocks? I don't know what the answer is. Perhaps just extend the track out in to the run off? According to all the arm chair racing drivers here, the fastest line through turns 3,4 & 5 is to stay inside the white lines, so the drivers wouldn't use that area under normal circumstances, it would just become an overtaking line.

Can i just add, as a local Melburnian, Turn 4 is actually situated within a carpark (for the local golf club & aquatic centre).
The race track (within the white/yellow lines) is actually a different surface,and slightly raised, in comparison to the tarmac beyond it.
Driving beyond the lines, as Vettel did, you effectively drop down almost an inch onto slippery, dusty, old, worn tarmac (I can feel it in my road car). It's actually a different colour & surface altogether.
It's definitely not the quicker way around that corner.

Being a slower tangent to take, I'd assume that's why the FIA never investigated any driver that pushed out wide on T4.

[andrew]

^ So Vettel in effectively penalised himself by tsking this route?

[JohnsonsEvilTwin]

We can debate about this till the cows come home.

But each moment looked in isolation reveals the correct action was taken...none.

Vettel probably knew had he taken the tighter line, his and Buttons race would have been finito.
Did he gain position by going off the track? No
Did he keep position by going off the track? Yes

Was there grounds for him going off track? Yes

What where they? Collision avoidance.

The end IMO.

[raymondu999]

The last 3 posts. Nuff said.

[Tamburello]

^^Somehow I think that's wishful thinking...

[raymondu999]

Wishful thinking or not, it was the stewards' thinking too