Australian GP 2011 - Albert Park, 24-27 March

[kalinka]

Wow, look at the top of the front wing on both sides, just inside of front tyres. On 2010 car, you can see it all the way, but on RB7 it almost dissapears in fast sections of the track. The video is enough, not much to say.

[bonjon1979]

I don't have any numbers, but the way how the ferrari looked on track, it still seems to be second fastest. They only had a bad weekened and messed up the setup.
I am not convinced they are more than 0.5s off the redbull much less the mclaren.
They just had a bad weekend.
The same for Williams.

Ferrari will bound back in malaysia, and i'm not even such a big ferrari fan.
The car just looked uncharacteristically stubborn in Australia.

Okay, if that's what you want to believe then fair enough. Personally, i think the times in qualy and race show that there was a significant performance advantage in the mclaren. However, it could be track specific and everything is different come Malaysia.

[twoshots]

It's also worth noting that one big reason Webber lost out to Alonso for 4th was due to his off after his 3rd pitstop (out lap) while he was trying to get the tires up to temp.

Webber also lost 2 seconds in the pit lane due to a slow tyre change by Red Bull, which was not picked up on the BBC commentary, so it was not all just the difference in pace.

[beelsebob]

Wow that comparison video is amazing – it's scary to say it, but it looks like the RB6 lacks downforce compared to the RB7! It's gaining all the way down the straights, and then losing out on all the corners – watch turn 2/3/4 and 11/12 (no --- on the latter two) to see it!

[kemalcan]

Look at the first stint - from laps 6-12 Alonso was chasing down Massa and Button. He was a good few seconds behind them for most of this time and only entered their turbulent air around lap ten when his times dropped quite significantly. Here are Alonso's times for this section of the race versus Hamilton.

Alonso Hamilton
6 1:33.278 6 1:32.434
7 1:32.903 7 1:32.447
8 1:33.099 8 1:32.310
9 1:33.621 9 1:32.612
10 1:34.053 10 1:33.121
11 1:34.857 11 1:32.737

Also just before those laps Alonso pushed hard to pass Kobayashi and Rosberg on his softs. Hamilton on the other hand was running like a leader behind Vettel.

[timd]

Yeah the RB7 looks like it has more grip everywhere really i was expecting to see it slower in corners and clawing more on the straights.

[bonjon1979]

Look at the first stint - from laps 6-12 Alonso was chasing down Massa and Button. He was a good few seconds behind them for most of this time and only entered their turbulent air around lap ten when his times dropped quite significantly. Here are Alonso's times for this section of the race versus Hamilton.

Alonso Hamilton
6 1:33.278 6 1:32.434
7 1:32.903 7 1:32.447
8 1:33.099 8 1:32.310
9 1:33.621 9 1:32.612
10 1:34.053 10 1:33.121
11 1:34.857 11 1:32.737

Also just before those laps Alonso pushed hard to pass Kobayashi and Rosberg on his softs. Hamilton on the other hand was running like a leader behind Vettel.

You could equally argue that while he wasn't having to run behind someone Hamilton was going much faster than Alonso in those laps and therefore was taking much more out of the tyres.

Hamilton Alonso
1 17:05:14 1 17:05:19
2 1:33.774 2 1:36.233
3 1:32.900 3 1:34.726
4 1:32.582 4 1:35.355
5 1:32.471 5 1:34.400
6 1:32.434 6 1:33.278

As I said, you can find a way to get the answer you want to by looking at the times in different ways. Truth is the only thing that matters is where the car is at the end of the race/season.

[kemalcan]

You could equally argue that while he wasn't having to run behind someone Hamilton was going much faster than Alonso in those laps and therefore was taking much more out of the tyres.

Hamilton Alonso
1 17:05:14 1 17:05:19
2 1:33.774 2 1:36.233
3 1:32.900 3 1:34.726
4 1:32.582 4 1:35.355
5 1:32.471 5 1:34.400
6 1:32.434 6 1:33.278

As I said, you can find a way to get the answer you want to by looking at the times in different ways. Truth is the only thing that matters is where the car is at the end of the race/season.

nope Alonso was chasing Kobayashi and Rosberg in these laps quite close considering the gap between Hamilton and Vettel.

Anyway you say also it is not a healthy comparision. Imho it's better comparision between Button and Alonso. And yes just one race cannot tell the thruth.

[bonjon1979]

You could equally argue that while he wasn't having to run behind someone Hamilton was going much faster than Alonso in those laps and therefore was taking much more out of the tyres.

Hamilton Alonso
1 17:05:14 1 17:05:19
2 1:33.774 2 1:36.233
3 1:32.900 3 1:34.726
4 1:32.582 4 1:35.355
5 1:32.471 5 1:34.400
6 1:32.434 6 1:33.278

As I said, you can find a way to get the answer you want to by looking at the times in different ways. Truth is the only thing that matters is where the car is at the end of the race/season.

nope Alonso was chasing Kobayashi and Rosberg in these laps quite close considering the gap between Hamilton and Vettel.

Anyway you say also it is not a healthy comparision. Imho it's better comparision between Button and Alonso.

You still aren't acknowledging that Hamilton was going faster which could mean that he was damaging his tyres more than Alonso. Regardless, there is no point trying to prove anything with numbers as there is always a counter argument. Let's wait till the end of the season to decide who's faster and by how much, that is the point of the championship after all.

Incidentally, here's Alonso's first few laps - some handy driving going on by the boy in red.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=z251hoIW1zg

[rfs]

Incidentally, here's Alonso's first few laps - some handy driving going on by the boy in red.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=z251hoIW1zg

That car looks quite wayward. You won't be able to save tyres with the car being such a handful.

[kemalcan]

You still aren't acknowledging that Hamilton was going faster which could mean that he was damaging his tyres more than Alonso.

tyres must be doing well in a stable race line and with a clean airflow therefore stable downforce levels around turns even if you are going faster compared to the car which is going slower but using quite different lines by running very close to the car in front.

[rfs]

Is it just me, or does the RB7 look like it has a lower CoG than the RB6?

[timbo]

Actually on that vid after first few laps the car starts to look way better.
Adding to the notion of tyre warm-up problems.

[bonjon1979]

You still aren't acknowledging that Hamilton was going faster which could mean that he was damaging his tyres more than Alonso.

tyres must be doing well in a stable race line and with a clean airflow therefore stable downforce levels around turns even if you are going faster compared to the car which is going slower but using quite different lines by running very close to the car in front.

The dark arts of tyre preservation/utilisation are far beyond mere mortals such as you and I!!!

On a serious note I gather that there are two things that dictate tyre degradation. One is excessive heat on tyres, the other is from wear due to slip.

It's a commonly held belief that more downforce = less slip = less wear on tyres.

But there have been some commentators suggesting that with the Pirelli it is the heat going into the tyres that is causing the most degradation which is interesting because:

More downforce = tyres worked harder = more heat = more degradation

Which could be the thing that stops Red Bull from blowing away the field with their outright pace. The tyres will only allow them to push so hard.

Looking at the Ferrari, I think they struggled to get heat into the front tyres so weren't fully able to do their thing. It could all be very different once we hit the heat of sepang and I do have a sneaky suspicion that they could be on the front two rows.

[wesley123]

I am quite convinced of the car having quite an handling problem.

The car sported some weird long pillars, such thing was used in more extent by Renault but more recently STR using these since Hungary. Such pillars work similar like a diffuser increasing pressure between them thus increasing downforce.

Also they where running absurd high steering angles, with both going almost full lock through turn three, I cannot see another reason of running such absurd steering angles than having an enormous oversteering problem(or understeering, the nose going straight forward lol) and just requiring those to actually go through the corner.

On Alonso's Q3 flying lap you just saw the car lacking front grip, compare it to the Red Bull you see the Ferrari having enormous problems going into the corner where the Red Bull is such well planted.

I wouldn't be surprised to see Ferrari adding front downforce over the season.