Mercedes GP W02

A place to discuss the characteristics of the cars in Formula One, both current as well as historical. Laptimes, driver worshipping and team chatter do not belong here.
roadwarrior
roadwarrior
0
Joined: 28 Mar 2011, 16:23

Re: Mercedes GP W02

Post

I just hope that Merc don't have problems understanding their car and struggle finding the sweet spot in the setups. This always seemed to be their weak spot in the past (even as far back as the Honda days) with their setup window being so small and sensitive. I would expect them to be able to turn up at a track with a pretty good base setup that was developed in the simulator. For what ever reason Merc seem weak in this area. They just seem to struggle with the correlation between the simulator and the car on the track. Was anything said during the winter about the W02 also sensitive small setup window?

As for the rear wing stalling, that is a little surprising as the wing seemed to work quite well in BCN which is supposed to be an aero track. I can only think that they must have changed something small which we haven't noticed or what other explanation can there be?

From the winter tests they were consistently at the top of the speed traps but that was with the wing open. I wonder with the wing closed if they have too much drag and hence Nico's slow top speeds during the race.

With McLaren so blatantly working on testing a flexi-wing during the winter, I'm surprised that Merc have not put more effort into this area of development. It clearly offers a huge chunk of time.

As this is was the first race on a bit of a unique track, I'm going to give them more time before judging if they're doomed.

marcush.
marcush.
159
Joined: 09 Mar 2004, 16:55

Re: Mercedes GP W02

Post

mind you Eeckelart is ex Hondaa /Brawn and left the outfit in 2009 ....maybe some backtracking?
I rmember Williams having big trouble with stiffness of their wingmount because of the centre mount rearwing...I think it´s a bit like the push/pullrod discussion ...
I think as long as Red Bull can make it work it cannot be THAT bad to have no centre pillar mount.

User avatar
mep
29
Joined: 11 Oct 2003, 15:48
Location: Germany

Re: Mercedes GP W02

Post

It is not very likely that somebody outside of the team notices an obvious design flaw which all the insiders fail to see. Also in the German article there is no special reasoning why the middle support is out of a sudden a must have now after it worked for at least 20 years. It just says it will be lighter and easier to adjust. It’s questionable if 3 supports are really lighter than 2. Even if it would be lighter it’s still no basic conceptual error.

How about angular flow during corners? The middle support will create something like an air shadow reducing the span. The article says nothing about aerodynamic effects.

Don’t pay much attention to those autosport articles, usually they are bad and just supposed to foolish the fans.

User avatar
JohnsonsEvilTwin
0
Joined: 29 Jan 2010, 11:51
Location: SU 419113

Re: Mercedes GP W02

Post

mep wrote: Don’t pay much attention to those autosport articles, usually they are bad and just supposed to foolish the fans.
+1

But I do think Mercedes will show a decent turn of speed come a real race track. Both Ferrari and Mercedes struggled with setup. This wont always be the case around dedicated race tracks.
At least I hope so.
More could have been done.
David Purley

segedunum
segedunum
0
Joined: 03 Apr 2007, 13:49

Re: Mercedes GP W02

Post

...
Schumacher has to ask himself how long it's going to take to start winning races, and based on this car and the direction of that team we're talking years if not the best part of a decade or more. He doesn't have that time. It's only sensible.

As for the rest........ That's another story.
Last edited by mx_tifoso on 31 Mar 2011, 01:21, edited 1 time in total.
Reason: removed quote as it was deleted. left somewhat on topic parts

User avatar
siskue2005
70
Joined: 11 May 2007, 21:50

Re: Mercedes GP W02

Post

marcush. wrote:mind you Eeckelart is ex Hondaa /Brawn and left the outfit in 2009 ....maybe some backtracking?
I rmember Williams having big trouble with stiffness of their wingmount because of the centre mount rearwing...I think it´s a bit like the push/pullrod discussion ...
I think as long as Red Bull can make it work it cannot be THAT bad to have no centre pillar mount.
no we are not talking about the central pillar
but the rear wing end plates are attached to diffuser for every top teams except Mercs
Image
Image
Image
Image

in case of Merc it only has the beam wing taking the load from the endplates

The ex Honda technician said its questionable to use such things especially with the new DRS this system is not good or not consistent and can cause unpredictable behavior.

Williams had the same problem in testing so i think what he is saying is correct

BrawnGP
BrawnGP
0
Joined: 01 Feb 2011, 15:33

Re: Mercedes GP W02

Post

Ahhhh I reckon Mercedes have just got the there selves confused and made the Rear wing bendy and the front one stiff!!!!!!! :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol:

NormalChris
NormalChris
1
Joined: 13 Feb 2009, 21:44

Re: Mercedes GP W02

Post

Isnt merc the only team to have the DRS mechanism inside the endplate as well? Seems that could contribute to this hypothesis that its not correctly supported.

User avatar
dren
226
Joined: 03 Mar 2010, 14:14

Re: Mercedes GP W02

Post

I'd put money on the actual geometry of the wing elements being the issue rather than how the rear wing is mounted to the car. They want the wing to stall easily when the flap opens and they want it to dump as much drag as possible. It sounds like the cross winds at Melbourne were causing issues. It's good to have the problem at the first race than experience it after several good races.

As for the KERS, they need to fix the issues there ASAP. I expect the car to show the potential it did in Barcelona at the next race.
Honda!

Formula None
Formula None
1
Joined: 17 Nov 2010, 05:23

Re: Mercedes GP W02

Post

More of the mega gurney aka monkey seat aka dreamcatcher:

Image

Image

bot6
bot6
0
Joined: 02 Mar 2011, 19:30

Re: Mercedes GP W02

Post

The only difference between now and testing spec really seems to be that monkey seat. It just looks bulky and in the way of the beam wing...

Logic tells me that when that wasn't there, it worked, and now that they added it, it doesn't.

So that's got to be the source of the problem?

marcush.
marcush.
159
Joined: 09 Mar 2004, 16:55

Re: Mercedes GP W02

Post

I read the Eeckeleart piece and he talked specifically about a centre pillar mount to be the preferable solution to the Mercedes layout and NOT about the endplates attaching to the difusser. :? He emphasized the importance of attaching the wing mount to a solid structure (Gearbox casing).The Difusser mount solution is all but substantial (looking at the rope type tensioner elements of Ferrari etc..

Of course you are right the added two mounting points should help

bot6
bot6
0
Joined: 02 Mar 2011, 19:30

Re: Mercedes GP W02

Post

Changing the subject a bit, Malaysia will be much hotter than Melbourne. Do you guys think Mercedes will have cooling problems again? Even after the upgrades in Barcelona, there were still some scorched body panels. Any thoughts on how the double decker rads will behave in the hotter, damper Malaysian air?

User avatar
Ferraripilot
21
Joined: 28 Jan 2011, 16:36
Location: Atlanta

Re: Mercedes GP W02

Post

bot6 wrote:Changing the subject a bit, Malaysia will be much hotter than Melbourne. Do you guys think Mercedes will have cooling problems again? Even after the upgrades in Barcelona, there were still some scorched body panels. Any thoughts on how the double decker rads will behave in the hotter, damper Malaysian air?

No, I don't believe heat will be a problem for MB, although I see it being a problem for Renault if anyone. I hope W02 will have better tire functionality with more ambient temps. Still, can't get over MB not gaining a tenth of a second going to softs. Not a spec of extra speed obtained, that's how bad the car was there! Here's hoping they don't take half a dozen races before they know just how to arrange the car.

Should the car be setup right, Nico and Michael should go as well as W02 is going to go at Malaysia. W02 looks as if it was designed for a track like Malaysia.

User avatar
N12ck
11
Joined: 19 Dec 2010, 19:10

Re: Mercedes GP W02

Post

Ive been looking at the W02 and the BGP001 and i think they have based the car on the BGP001, and raised the nose on the BGP001, look at the sidepod undercut, look at the rear wing endplates, look at the engine cover, look at the sidepod intakes...

http://www.google.co.uk/imgres?imgurl=h ... m=1&itbs=1

http://www.google.co.uk/imgres?imgurl=h ... 66&bih=667
Budding F1 Engineer