Left Mirrors (more data)

cookingoil · Post 27 Mar 2006, 04:42

I know that the shaking left mirrors had been discussed in an other topic.
I've checked two onboard races,
result:

don't know: Toyota, Aguri (haven't seen an onboard shot)
fine mirrors: Ferrari, Williams, BAR, BMW, MF1, STR
shaking mirrors: Renault, Mclaren, Red Bull

and, the left mirrors on the Mclaren are very strange.
the left mirrors on Renault & Red Bull, the just constantly shaking on high speed,
(shaking only happens in high speed, and seems has nothing to do with turning or up/down shifting)
And Mclaren's?
In sepang,
Kimi's first lap, the left mirror didn't shake, although he just complete about 1/3 lap, the speed before turn4 is about 290km/h, but didn't shake.
And Montoya? His left mirror in the middle of the race was shaking crazily,
and became more and more severe.
And we all know the result... his left mirror had gone with the wind.

Deano · Post 31 Mar 2006, 23:30

i reckon its a technical flaw that in the wind tuneels they couldnt monitor because its not actually revving

Tp · Post 01 Apr 2006, 00:51

Certainly can't be helping the car aerodynamically

Deano · Post 01 Apr 2006, 11:22

definately not as the air flow will be disturbed

peroa · Post 01 Apr 2006, 11:34

Because it is only on one side I am sure that it comes from a flatspotted tyre.

Scuderia_Russ · Post 01 Apr 2006, 12:12

Deano wrote:i reckon its a technical flaw that in the wind tuneels they couldnt monitor because its not actually revving

Seven post rig minus the airflow might still show it up.

DaveKillens · Post 02 Apr 2006, 16:35

The teams could easily recreate the vibration from the powertrain during wind tunnel tests. But from what I have seen, the mirror vibrations are directly proportional to velocity, not engine revs. I still believe that at higher speeds, near the absolute top speed, that severe buffeting occurs, coming from the front tire/ wing interaction, and directly impacts around the mirror area. I also believe that this problem is generic, that all cars have it, some just more pronounced and severe than others.

manchild · Post 02 Apr 2006, 17:20

Perhaps it has something to with fact that first 3 races were clockwise? Perhaps right mirrors will vibrate on circuits with opposite direction? (I'm having in mind setup and ratio between right and left turns).

Tom · Post 02 Apr 2006, 20:08

You might have it there MC. We'll see at Imola.

DaveKillens · Post 02 Apr 2006, 21:48

It's logical manchild. If teams are running assymetric aero, then they would have more downforce on the left side, because the cars predominately turn right. If there is more aero generated on the left side, then the most obvious sign of intense turbulence would be on the left mirror. Maybe the left front wing has just a little more angle of attack than the right, and thus would deflect the air a little more, a little higher than the right.

wazojugs · Post 02 Apr 2006, 21:58

I think it might be down to the buffeting of the air as it directed over the car to the rear.

Also it could be that either the vertical/horizontal carbon fibre arm that holds the mirror in place is the same length as a vibrations wavelength coming from the car as it moves. Causing the arm to move too in harmony.

If you hang 10 equal weights from 10 strings of various lengths from say a washing line and keep them still. Then get a random length of string with a weight and tie it to the washing line and swing it side to side, one of the 10 strings will move that has the nearest length to the swinging weight, the others will remain still.

captainmorgan · Post 02 Apr 2006, 22:22

San Marino GP next week is counter clockwise, so we will be able to figure it out then. Barcelona 2 races after that is also CCW

Did the left mirrors shake at Melbourne?

zac510 · Post 02 Apr 2006, 23:54

DaveKillens wrote:It's logical manchild. If teams are running assymetric aero, then they would have more downforce on the left side, because the cars predominately turn right.

Wouldn't they want a bit more downforce on the right side to balance the roll and work the inside tyres a bit harder?

DaveKillens · Post 03 Apr 2006, 00:38

zac510 wrote:Wouldn't they want a bit more downforce on the right side to balance the roll and work the inside tyres a bit harder?

On second thought, maybe you're correct. I was assuming that they would want to put maximum load on the outside tire, since downforce on a wheel gives more grip. But maybe loading the inside wheel would give more grip on a wheel that has most of it's weight translated across to the other side.
Hmm, food for thought, all I know is I hear the air coming out of my sails as I ponder what assumption s closer to the truth.

manchild · Post 03 Apr 2006, 09:03

captainmorgan wrote:Did the left mirrors shake at Melbourne?

Yes they did.