Is McLaren really off the pace?

[raymondu999]

Jenson said 18 laps, but does anyone know if Lewis did a longer stint during testing?

[Florio]

Jenson said 18 laps, but does anyone know if Lewis did a longer stint during testing?

I don't think so, I remember Lewis said we hope to do a race simulation after Jensons day in the car. However the car had multiple problems that day if I remember. The source is my memory so don't quote me directly on that one

[Alge7a]

Don't forget that Hamilton was also slowed because of him damaged splitter.

At the end of the first stint he'd closed up within 2 seconds of Vettel. SB certainly didn't have anything in reserve in that stint, and Lewis was starting to reel him in again in the second stint when the car broke.

I don't think McLaren have the measure of Red Bull in the race just yet, but I think they can run them quite close and there is clearly a lot more to come from their car.

Lewis obviously tried too hard to close in on vettel and thats why he broke his floor isnt it?

Just curious how could you be so certain that Vettel was pushing his car to the limit, during the first and second stint? What about the 3.2 sec gap between vettel and lewis after just 3 laps?

was'nt the problem that Hamilton was too busy holding his ground with Webber?. Once Hamilton had lost Weber he was quick to catch up with Vettel. I think by Europe will really tell us what the cars can do and who had the upper hand back at the factory when it comes to packages, upgrades. The big questions for me this season will be can McLaren make good of there positive remarks to the press on upcoming upgrades which never caught the Rb last year. And will Newey find away to run KER's in his car without overheating. Whenever Mclaren get confident they tend to fall on there face. I hope thats a trend that stops soon. A few DNF's from Rb this season would definitely help the tv viewers stay tuned. Ferrari will be back in it either the next race or the one after. Im pretty sure about that. Melbourne always throws up anomalies. The biggest problem that the FIA has this season is veiwing figures dropping. The die hards will be there every race but people who switch on to entertained have already started wandering. Two of my freinds sent me scathing texts as Vettel took 5 seconds of hamilton and switched off.

[raymondu999]

Just to clarify, the gap actually became 2.4 at the end of lap1. Then Vettel pulled 0.8 in lap 2. Then in lap 3-11, the gap was managed at 3.2/3.3s

[Shrieker]

Just to clarify, the gap actually became 2.4 at the end of lap1. Then Vettel pulled 0.8 in lap 2. Then in lap 3-11, the gap was managed at 3.2/3.3s

Did Vettel slow down after lap 2, or was Hamilton taking it a bit too easy in the first couple of laps ?

[raymondu999]

Actually that's an interesting one. Does anyone have a record of all the laptimes by both drivers? So we can see if Vettel's decreased or Hamilton's increased

[segedunum]

I think we saw enough of Vettel and Red Bull's cruise control to suspect that had Lewis got anywhere near him that gap would have been maintained or increased. Not only did Vettel pull out a good three seconds in no time at all as he seemed to get the tyres up to performance quicker than anyone else, but he also grabbed a full five seconds after the first stop as well probably for the very same reason. All Red Bull really had to do was make sure they pitted earlier. I know people are putting as much positive spin as possible on this 'race pace' stuff that some like to talk about, but Hamilton and McLaren weren't even in the same race. If anything, I would have expected it to be close in Australia before Red Bull showed what they could do through quicker corners on other circuits. I'm just curious how many seconds ahead they'll be at coming circuits now.

All in all it was quite perfect for Red Bull, apart from Webber's position. They didn't have to run KERS and they put the absolute bare minimum amount of stress on the engine and gearbox they will need to use in further races. It's actually worth running races close to gain that advantage later.

At least McLaren have come out with some fighting talk, even if some of it is a little misguided, but Ferrari just gave me the impression of a team already out of ideas.

[segedunum]

Vettel took off yes ... and paid the price for it later. To pull out 3 seconds in the first coupla laps, and be only 1.2 secs ahead at your pitstop tells us pretty much everything we need to know about how aggrieved the tyres felt.

I don't think so. Gaining an advantage when others were getting up to speed seemed to be something they were counting on. All they did was make sure Vettel pitted earlier first and he gained five seconds after that stop alone knowing that he'd have the performance where Hamilton didn't. If I were other teams I'd be a little perturbed as to how Vettel and Red Bull did that.

evidenced by their lack of aggression on the undercut.

It wasn't for lack of aggression. They simply didn't have the speed, especially on older tyres. Even when they got new tyres on nothing changed.

[PlatinumZealot]

So why did the gap cut down to 1.5 seconds JUST BEFORE the pit-stop? Never seen that happen intentionally before.

If it was another 2 or 3 laps he would have been dead meat.

[feynman]

Vettel took off yes ... and paid the price for it later. To pull out 3 seconds in the first coupla laps, and be only 1.2 secs ahead at your pitstop tells us pretty much everything we need to know about how aggrieved the tyres felt.

I don't think so. Gaining an advantage when others were getting up to speed seemed to be something they were counting on. All they did was make sure Vettel pitted earlier first and he gained five seconds after that stop alone knowing that he'd have the performance where Hamilton didn't. If I were other teams I'd be a little perturbed as to how Vettel and Red Bull did that.

That was in direct response to the suggestion that Vettel was pacing the first sector, and could have gone faster, I don't think so. You simply do not let a rival get *that* close if you have any extra pace available anywhere, and you don't gamble on a coin toss about who pits first if you have extra speed avaiable to open up a wheel-nut friendlier gap. He didn't have any extra, because we saw he didn't, that speaks clearly for itself.

evidenced by their lack of aggression on the undercut.

It wasn't for lack of aggression. They simply didn't have the speed, especially on older tyres. Even when they got new tyres on nothing changed.

I wasn't talking about speed, I was talking about them leaving Hamilton out on track for a couple of laps while Vettel was on brand new tyres going faster. That would only ever end one way.

If they wished to be more frisky on strategy they would have pitted Hamilton as soon as Vettel's tyres started to struggle. After hearing "rears slowly starting to go", as soon as a couple of slower sectors in a row turn up on the timing-screen, anywhere near a pitwindow, make a jump ... they didn't, they clearly chose to stay out to help divide the race into more manageable proportions. That was their priority.

They weren't sure, as most teams weren't, what exactly the story was with tyres, so chose to play it safe, a steady and balanced two stopper, not stops pulled forward for an aggressive undercut and have to risk a third stop or falling backwards through the grid in the last few laps on canvas.

Nothing wrong with it, I was just saying the way they played with stops gave us some small insight into their thinking on tyres.

[Shrieker]

Actually that's an interesting one. Does anyone have a record of all the laptimes by both drivers? So we can see if Vettel's decreased or Hamilton's increased

I found this :




Looks like Hamilton was taking it easy first two laps. Could be that Red Bull (Vettel) can get the tyres up to optimum temp range a lot faster, or McLaren knew that when pushed hard too early, the pirelli's start suffering later on so Hamilton could've been looking after them those first two laps.


edit: http://bprf1.com/2011/03/31/inside-the- ... rand-prix/

Do we know this guy ? He has done a real nice race analysis with lots of useful data.

[Alge7a]

Does anyone have the pit stop averages from last season. I felt McLaren were slower in general than the top teams.I know that Mercedes had the over all best times. Even if Mc can't figure out how to out do Newey in design they could definitely get there pit stop act together as I know they weren't near the front in times.

[raymondu999]

I thought McL did the best pitstops in Melb, no? I could be wrong. I recall Ferrari pitstop mechanics being rather dreadful and serving up 5-6s stops all the time. In fact, most of the teams were having 4+ second pitstops as I recall. I was quite puzzled as to why they did those while they were doing 3.2, 3.3, 3.4 second pitstops at Abu Dhabi

[Poleman]

Well let's face it, they're still the thick end of a second off but thank goodness they've done something because God knows what kind of race we'd have to look forward to otherwise.

They've pulled out some stops and fair play to them, but I'd like to see the car away from Melbourne and going through a few important high speed corners that we see at other circuits before I'd eat that pie.

First of all apologies for bringing this thread back from the dead but yeah...

[marcush.]

this thread finally has come to the end of it´s life,thank you Mclaren for shedding some light on this.