Mercedes GP W02

[raymondu999]

Look, we know that, given the circumstances in Melbourne, Merc were off the pace. But it's far too early to actually judge that they won't be fighting it out at the top over the course of the season

[segedunum]

KERS problems? The best unit on the grid, allegedly? Many other teams had a few KERS issues, and one or two didn't even run it. I don't see the comparison.

I'm sure Mercedes were as fast as most teams on the grid at various points during the race, but they were where they were in qualifying and they finished where they finished in the race. That's why I don't particularly like this 'race pace' excuse that keeps cropping up. They can't count on Sauber making measurement screwups in every race either.

[NewtonMeter]

After an initial violent overreaction and a few days of vigorous brooding (yes, I take Motorsport THAT seriously) I calmed down somewhat and look forward to the race at sepang.

I don't get the same "head scratching" vibe I got from the team last year. I do get a sense of confidence and that they know they did a piss poor job at Australia, and are keen to make amends.

From sources inside the team and out, the vibe is that this is a genuinely good car. Not a world beater perhaps, but certainly a competent machine. The team has said repeatedly that they KNOW it's a good car and even that character Helmut Marko said that the car seemed to be genuinely good at the barca test (http://www.wheels24.co.za/FormulaOne/Me ... l-20110404).

I remember the case of How Ferrari's 2008 season began: Pretty poor. It just seemed they were ill prepared then. And I'm getting the same feeling from Merc. They were just plain old unprepared for the race.

Just as a little soliloquy, the race might not have reflected it, but I feel that if (hopefully when) Michael wins a race again, he will have a huge monkey off his back and give them young guns something to think about.

Anywho, that's my essay for the day...

[Ferraripilot]

KERS problems? The best unit on the grid, allegedly? Many other teams had a few KERS issues, and one or two didn't even run it. I don't see the comparison.

I'm sure Mercedes were as fast as most teams on the grid at various points during the race, but they were where they were in qualifying and they finished where they finished in the race. That's why I don't particularly like this 'race pace' excuse that keeps cropping up. They can't count on Sauber making measurement screwups in every race either.

Sort of odd considering it was no fault of their own that neither car completed the race. Race pace is where pace counts really. Neither car having kers during the race and Nico's being intermittent while Michael's was shot altogether during qualy don't provide me with any confidence in creating an opinion regarding the cars potential. It was clear when watching qualy that the kers meters played on the screen were not being used at all, same as Red Bull I guess but don't get me started on them and what the Fia is NOT doing regarding their cheating front wing and rules 3.15 and 3.17.8 to be specific

It seems to me that MB spent too much time on systems than actually setting up the car and making sure it was reliable (maybe it's all the same?). Of course I can't stand by that but it sure seems like a priority management issue. Maybe it's a one-off, but if it continues like this for a while they are hosed. Although it is good to hear Stuggart has resources in the mix making it a real MB team ya know.

[xpensive]

And regarding the BAR comments, I thought 99% of the BAR people were long gone.

I wonder what gave you that impression. But in either case, it's about having started out with a technical a staff bigger than I ever worked within (300+?), this sets a particular culture that is very, very difficult to stamp out. What BAR did was basically asking a CART-chassis builder Reynard to design and build an F1 car with a nearly unlimited budget of tobacco-money. They got nowhere. Then Honda took over, they got nowhere.

Now Mercedes seems to be a bit more successful, now that Brackley have a decent engine, but the inherent problem of complacency seems to be still there, I'd be surprised to learn that the Stuttgart suits have unlimited patience with a team they bought as the current WCC?

[Ferraripilot]

After an initial violent overreaction and a few days of vigorous brooding (yes, I take Motorsport THAT seriously) I calmed down somewhat and look forward to the race at sepang.

I don't get the same "head scratching" vibe I got from the team last year. I do get a sense of confidence and that they know they did a piss poor job at Australia, and are keen to make amends.

From sources inside the team and out, the vibe is that this is a genuinely good car. Not a world beater perhaps, but certainly a competent machine. The team has said repeatedly that they KNOW it's a good car and even that character Helmut Marko said that the car seemed to be genuinely good at the barca test (http://www.wheels24.co.za/FormulaOne/Me ... l-20110404).

I remember the case of How Ferrari's 2008 season began: Pretty poor. It just seemed they were ill prepared then. And I'm getting the same feeling from Merc. They were just plain old unprepared for the race.

Just as a little soliloquy, the race might not have reflected it, but I feel that if (hopefully when) Michael wins a race again, he will have a huge monkey off his back and give them young guns something to think about.

Anywho, that's my essay for the day...

+1 Great post. I am right there with you.

W02 could be another '94 Williams car though. The Williams was good, but it had understeer AND oversteer tendencies almost at the same time. It could be fantastic at one place yet unpredictable at another. Williams learned quickly and made a championship car shortly after, but not before going through a steep learning curve.

[marcush.]

To me Malaysia is the true acid test if all was just blabla and the whole operation is just a fluke or they had an off in Australia for whatever reason.
I have seen very crude pieces of engineering do a respectable job even though I have to admit I cannot really identify with things that lack passion .But maybe I´m just unable to see the beauty...

-on a sidenote-
Exp has a point with a headcount of 300+ f1 teams are not small businesses campaigning two cars every other week...surely all these teams must be extremely vulnerable as in case things go wrong the speed at wich they go wrong can gain huge momentum before someone can countersteer or redirect.

[Ferraripilot]

And regarding the BAR comments, I thought 99% of the BAR people were long gone.

I wonder what gave you that impression. But in either case, it's about having started out with a technical a staff bigger than I ever worked within (300+?), this sets a particular culture that is very, very difficult to stamp out. What BAR did was basically asking a CART-chassis builder Reynard to design and build an F1 car with a nearly unlimited budget of tobacco-money. They got nowhere. Then Honda took over, they got nowhere.

Now Mercedes seems to be a bit more successful, now that Brackley have a decent engine, but the inherent problem of complacency seems to be still there, I'd be surprised to learn that the Stuttgart suits have unlimited patience with a team they bought as the current WCC?

I don't see the difference between a Williams, Mclaren, or Red Bull in that it has to do with proper management of assets. Change management and the work product also changes (although rarely immediately). If change is not adapted to, then those who will not change must go. Thus is the same with any business and making it profitable. MB brought in a (and got rid of) several people in 2010 and brought in what they called, "young and excited engineers wanting to be the next Newey". MB obviously doesn't have 700 employees like the largest teams but I believe they made out very well with their 400.

[Dragonfly]

It is one thing to not have a KERS in the car and quite different to have one, which does not work or, even worse, works erratically.
Making general conclusions from one race, even more the first one, is a childish approach at best. Or very primitive attempt to flamebait Mercedes fans.
I am a Schu fan BTW, don't like their road cars, and will not spare any criticism if the car proves to be a dog.

[bot6]

Seg, you're always so positive about everything, it's so refreshing...

[xpensive]

Bob Bell has a nightmare on his hands there. The stuff he's going to recommend probably won't go down too well with Mercedes because it's going to cost money, and lots of it.

In all honesty seg, I'm not so sure if we should xpect Bob Bell to spend so much time on this dog, perhaps he's hired to design the car for next year, you know the third year, when Mercedes are supposed to take the WDC/WCC?

Come to think about it, Bob Bell might be brought in to, if possible, make sure that the W02 does not fall completely behind, which might make the Stuttgart suits pull the plug on the entire operation prematurely. Marcush, what do you think?

[ell66]

If you ask me they're far worse off than they were this time last year, just ask yourselves could you see rosberg finishing less than 10 seconds behnd the 2 bulls in malaysia on pure pace like last year? they even regulary out qulaified the mclarens and ferrari's at the start of the year.
I never understood how the team with the longest lead time only managed to bring there proper package to the final test and just how unfinished the car looks.

and ALL there hopes seem to pinned on a couple of fast laps on low fuel in barcelona.

Ill wait until after china to see where they are, but i see them battling renault and maybe even williams for 4th/5th/6th.

[xpensive]

A most observant post ell66.

What I wonder the most is what xpectations did Daimler have anyway, challenging for victories in the second year I guess would have been a minimum. JET?

[JohnsonsEvilTwin]

Until I see a Lotus decimate the W02, I will refrain from calling this a disaster.

The car matched a Mclaren in race trim....with issues. So What can they do when they hit the sweetspot of this car?
They certainly arent in a worse spot than last year, and its obvious Merceds cannot compete with the top 3 in real terms becasue they wont spend more than they need to.

Schumacher alluded to this fact when questioned why Mercedes cut development on the W01 in July then started on the W02.
400 people workin flat out for 7 months will not get the same results as 650 people working flat out for 5 months is the answer.
Allied to this we have Mercedes actively investing in new tech for the team. Sure results were average in 2010, 2011 has started with a whimper, but there are 17 races left guys.
The W02 cannot be judged on an outing where both cars where done for inside 20 laps.

My concern with the W02 is the set up issues they had in Oz. It will happen again IMO because the car's wheelbase may make it difficult to find the right balance between consistent grip, and tyre wear. I predict this will be a year where Mercedes will be fighting for podiums at some races, and be totally lost at others.

In my view though, we havent seen the best of this car or even close to that just yet.

[dren]

I don't think it was set-up issues as much as all of the systems not working. If Mercedes produces a 100% reliable working car in Malaysia, I expect them to fight it out with Mclaren, Ferrari and Renault. I don't think the wheel base is causing issues. They had KERS issues and the rear wing stalling when it wasn't supposed to.