Red Bull RB7 Renault

[i70q7m7ghw]

Do Red Bull develop their own KERS?

He was interviewed by the BBC and said they were producing their own variant of the Renault KERS. He didn't say it outright but, in my opinion, I think he showed some regret over this due to the struggle to gain reliability.

We were keen to do our own version of the Renault KERS to suit our own package and some of the problems we've had have been through that choice and some of them have been a result of the underlying system.

Red Bull's Adrian Newey would rather not use Kers (UK only)

Hmm. His excuses are non-excuses IMO, look at McLaren?

[Dragonfly]

I also read that they are developing their own KERS.
Maybe because of the packaging requirements where a ready-made one will not fit to the car.

[PlatinumZealot]

It's just a generator and two other units (batteries and control box). There is not much you can do to change the shape of these. So packaging is just a matter of placement. Especially with modern day CAD softawre...I am sure packaging is a non issue. In fact Newey has already came out and said packaging is not the problem. In my view it is possibly a whole host of other technical issues. It be electrical, cooling, intereference, vibration, bad programing, electronic etc.. so many things, but I am confident it is not the packaging.

[Boost]

It's just a generator and two other units (batteries and control box). There is not much you can do to change the shape of these. So packaging is just a matter of placement. Especially with modern day CAD softawre...I am sure packaging is a non issue. In fact Newey has already came out and said packaging is not the problem. In my view it is possibly a whole host of other technical issues. It be electrical, cooling, intereference, vibration, bad programing, electronic etc.. so many things, but I am confident it is not the packaging.

The Mercedes KERs and I think the others now have everything contained in a single unit consisting of the MGU, control system and batteries. If Adrian Newey has split the unit back into 3 presumably he is trying to reduce the size of the MGU on the back of the engine for whatever reason, and is having to use a different cooling solution to Renault.

[Tim.Wright]

It's just a generator and two other units (batteries and control box). There is not much you can do to change the shape of these. So packaging is just a matter of placement. Especially with modern day CAD softawre...I am sure packaging is a non issue. In fact Newey has already came out and said packaging is not the problem. In my view it is possibly a whole host of other technical issues. It be electrical, cooling, intereference, vibration, bad programing, electronic etc.. so many things, but I am confident it is not the packaging.

I don't necesarily disagree with what you say about red bull, but in any case - just because you have CAD doesn't mean packaging is not a problem.

If your aerodynamic philosphy forces you to leave open an area that you would otherwise fill with battery - then you have yourself a packaging problem.

Plus, there is a lot you can do with the shape of the shape of the battery pack in particular to optimise packaing. Don't forget also there are cooling requirements which necessitate ducting to and from the kers unit which are probably the most space intensive part of the whole kers system. Add the fact that any cooling inlets will compromise your aerodynamic performance, and you will see that the packaging is not so simple.

Tim

[Robbobnob]

Do Red Bull develop their own KERS?
.......

Hmm. His excuses are non-excuses IMO, look at McLaren?

lets not forget RBR didnt develop their KERS in 2009 where McLaren and Ferrari and Renault all had a system, so they have obviously learnt a few tricks

They are running into their issues purely based on the lack of running a KERS, dont forget the red team had some pretty dire issues with their system, like kimi burning his bum etc

[raymondu999]

How about buying the old BMW KERS? As I remember they actually had the most developed KERS unit. It was just that their car was such a dog.

[PlatinumZealot]

I don't necesarily disagree with what you say about red bull, but in any case - just because you have CAD doesn't mean packaging is not a problem.

If your aerodynamic philosphy forces you to leave open an area that you would otherwise fill with battery - then you have yourself a packaging problem.

Plus, there is a lot you can do with the shape of the shape of the battery pack in particular to optimise packaing. Don't forget also there are cooling requirements which necessitate ducting to and from the kers unit which are probably the most space intensive part of the whole kers system. Add the fact that any cooling inlets will compromise your aerodynamic performance, and you will see that the packaging is not so simple.

Tim

I still don't believe that packaging KERS is a problem for RedBull of all people. Just look at the car! Even a drugs smuggler worth his weight can fit a KERS system on his person. 30kg? They carry that KERS unit through immigration like it wasn't even there!

[bhall]

Sorry... anyone know what the fail button is for?

If the driver notices anything wrong with the car, he presses the FAIL button to place a reference point in the telemetry for the problem so that it can be quickly identified later.

[raymondu999]

aha. Got it. But it would just place a marker of where to search before, would it not? I mean, for example, your DRS fails on lap 30. Then on lap 32, you press the button, then it doesn't work. Doesn't mean the failure happened on lap 32. The fail button would only be pressed on lap 32, no?

[bhall]

Yes, it's just there so engineers can more quickly zero in on a failure, rather than being a definitive marker as to exactly where a failure occurred. I don't know that the FAIL button would be needed for a problem as significant as a DRS failure, though. I think its real utility is to flag subtle problems the driver notices - like vibrations, misfires, etc - which could possibly be overlooked in later analysis.

[Caito]

I think it's also there in case of radio fail.


That's why he also has and ACK button (apparte from being the OK from the multiselector)

If I'm not wrong(or it was something similar on Sauber's wheel)

If radio failed and the team could contact you, they would use the ACK or FAIL button.

[marcush.]

How about buying the old BMW KERS? As I remember they actually had the most developed KERS unit. It was just that their car was such a dog.

that´s a myth..Heidfeld has publicly hailed the Renault KERS as being in a different world to the BMW system wich never worked satisfactory and how they never managed to integrate it into the car to work suitable for the driver.Time goes on quickly in these technologies..and I guess RedBull will not catch up quick enough with this.

[horse]

I guess RedBull will not catch up quick enough with this.

If anything is in their favour, it's that this will be being dealt with by an engineering team separate to the aerodynamics department. The aero guys have aced the car this year, so they have plenty of time for development of upgrades while KERS is being sorted out.

[marcush.]

if anything is a problem then it´s integrating KERS .As i understand they have packaged it and have altered the hardware already.So there is good chance they also did their own thing in other areas .Newey is the type of guy to do things on his own...
The pointer towards Aero being a separate entity is correct but don´t forget the same guys who try to create mechanical behaviour of the car suitable for the AERO developped are now trying to avoid Kers disturbing that behaviour on recuperation.
Is it just a thing of brake balance ? no- the mass accelerated and charging the batteries is certainly a different animal than having a set of carbondiscs.
Now look at some drivers not able to find their confidence with a certain make of Carbon brakes it seems reasonable to assume this is quite a task.
So what´s happening with elevated temps when the effieciency of the gnerator goes down ,or the batteries rise in temp and crying enough under charging.You can´t just throw off the recuperation when braakeforce is needed to make the corner can you? I think KERS is an incredible task in relation to the potential gains.
Now with Mclaren having come up with a decent car it seems they are a bit surprised to NEED KERS already in the first races.I´d guess they try to use it for the starts mainly and hope to get it sorted for more use later in the year.