Mercedes GP W02

A place to discuss the characteristics of the cars in Formula One, both current as well as historical. Laptimes, driver worshipping and team chatter do not belong here.
tok-tokkie
tok-tokkie
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Joined: 08 Jun 2009, 16:21
Location: Cape Town

Re: Mercedes GP W02

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bot6 wrote:This time it really is a mechanical issue apparently, with the wing not closing properly on braking, as Brawn said it showed in the telemetry. He also used the word "malfunctioned" rather than "stalled" which suggests a mechanical or electrical problem rather than an aerodynamic one.

The wing mechanism is hydraulic, so it would be fairly easy to have two actuators acting simultaneously. All you would need for that is one hydraulic circuit with one master cylinder and one command, splitting into two pipes going to the actuators. The issue is probably elsewhere, either from the mechanism getting blocked by something (debris, rubber marble, ...) or maybe the electric pump for the hydraulics pressure. Could just be the pressure sensor in there acting up. Or an electric fault in the command.
That is just what must not be done. Having 2 actuators (=cylinders) fed from a single source splitting into two makes the cylinder with the lower load advance further than the other and usually causes a mechanical jamming of the system (depends on the precise layout).

Solution: Single pipe to back of first cylinder, pipe from front of first cylinder to rear of second cylinder so when first cylinder advances the second has to advance in step - but both cylinders must have through rods so the front & back chambers both have cylinder rods so they have the same swept volume. Contraction of cylinders by feeding oil into front of second cylinder. Cylinders need to be oversized as they are only 50% effective because of balanced oil pressure.

I think electrical stepper or servo motors could be used.

volarchico
volarchico
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Joined: 26 Feb 2010, 07:27

Re: Mercedes GP W02

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raymondu999 wrote:
volarchico wrote:Looks like either my poor memory, or BBC announcers getting it wrong. They definitely commented on one of the teams having to hold a button for DRS, but I guess it wasn't Mercedes!
that would be STR :P
Thank you. Wish I had it recorded and I would have gone back and found my own mistake, but I appreciate your help! If nothing else, we know that DRS during quali can be turned on and off without touching the brake.

marcush.
marcush.
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Joined: 09 Mar 2004, 16:55

Re: Mercedes GP W02

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that was my fear...the flap is somehow a rigid thing (of course it can be twisted by applying enough torque but to act on both sides with force coming from one source is calling for trouble.As tepper would be equally prone to jamming or refused activation in those harsh conditions.
The approach taken by RB with a central leaver /actuator is less prone to jamming methinks...and the situation of a flap jamming in open position is totally unacceptable from a safety standpoint so the design is completely useless
and unsafe.

vealio
vealio
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Joined: 20 Apr 2010, 00:25

Re: Mercedes GP W02

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New cooling system sounds like a major task.
Still, first of all they have to fix the DRS issues, this is no longer acceptable

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adrianjordan
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Joined: 28 Feb 2010, 11:34
Location: West Yorkshire, England

Re: Mercedes GP W02

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[quote="JohnsonsEvilTwin"But what do Mercedes have to do to get the blinking DRS working?[/quote]

Some would have you believe that if they copied Red Bull then they would solve their problems.... #-o
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Turned down the chance to meet Vettel at Silverstone in 2007. He was a test driver at the time and I didn't think it was worth queuing!! 🤦🏻‍♂️

andrew
andrew
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Joined: 16 Feb 2010, 15:08
Location: Aberdeen, Scotland - WhiteBlue Country (not the region)

Re: Mercedes GP W02

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I can't understand how they can't design and build a ARW that works. It is a very simple mechanism.

bonjon1979
bonjon1979
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Joined: 11 Feb 2009, 17:16

Re: Mercedes GP W02

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andrew wrote:I can't understand how they can't design and build a ARW that works. It is a very simple mechanism.
Aren't the loads involved quite considerable? I mean, I'm sure they could design something very easily if weight and size of the system were not an issue but since they are I can understand how difficulties can occur.

Dragonfly
Dragonfly
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Joined: 17 Mar 2008, 21:48
Location: Bulgaria

Re: Mercedes GP W02

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But deployment of various moving elements has perhaps a 100 years of history in aviation. With different solutions. It's not new technology.
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andrew
andrew
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Joined: 16 Feb 2010, 15:08
Location: Aberdeen, Scotland - WhiteBlue Country (not the region)

Re: Mercedes GP W02

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bonjon1979 wrote:
andrew wrote:I can't understand how they can't design and build a ARW that works. It is a very simple mechanism.
Aren't the loads involved quite considerable? I mean, I'm sure they could design something very easily if weight and size of the system were not an issue but since they are I can understand how difficulties can occur.
True, but even considering the loads it is still a relatively simple system. How a team of expert engineers can't get it right is beyond belief. Even HRT have a working ARW!

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Joie de vivre
2
Joined: 02 Sep 2010, 10:12

Re: Mercedes GP W02

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Next time, Ross Brawn should send Nico and Michael on the track only 2 minutes till end of qualifications, dumb ass.

bjpower
bjpower
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Joined: 17 May 2009, 14:26

Re: Mercedes GP W02

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I just find it suspicious both Webber and shui have "problems" with the drs/kers,
but the team mates dont?
I cant believe that these systems have not been replaced, considering what is on the line.

I think its just excuses for the drivers
I could be wrong

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Joie de vivre
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Joined: 02 Sep 2010, 10:12

Re: Mercedes GP W02

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totally agree with you

its bullshit that webber is 18th ... are they for real? Vettel had such an advantage but teammate is among virgins? right

andrew
andrew
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Joined: 16 Feb 2010, 15:08
Location: Aberdeen, Scotland - WhiteBlue Country (not the region)

Re: Mercedes GP W02

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How right you are! Red Bull are deliberately sabotaging Webbers car, despite spending millions to delevop the car and paying his a few million a year to toodle about at the back!

It is perfectly simple as to why these systems have not been replaced - there has been no time between races! 7 days isn't a long time to do anything unless they have a teleporter, in which case you may be onto something. #-o

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raymondu999
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Joined: 04 Feb 2010, 07:31

Re: Mercedes GP W02

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Joie de vivre wrote:Vettel had such an advantage but teammate is among virgins?
I don't think any man would complain about being among virgins :P
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Poleman
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Joined: 02 Feb 2010, 19:25

Re: Mercedes GP W02

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raymondu999 wrote:
Joie de vivre wrote:Vettel had such an advantage but teammate is among virgins?
I don't think any man would complain about being among virgins :P
That was a good one! :lol: =D>