Mercedes GP W02

[Ferraripilot]

Schumacher is always driving the car at its ragged edge d that is perhaps not always the fastest way.
On a car with an inconsistent rear wing downforce due to the DRS, It means thats Schumacher needs the flow to attch faster and ore cinsistently than Nico does.
Nico appears to be more Button like and therefore would have less issues if he brakes for longer but not as violently.In Schumachers case he would be dealing with instability both mechanical and aerodynamic.
At 42 I doubt his reflexes are what they used to be when he was Nico's age.

I'm not so sure about that as both drivers have had the wing issue. I think it's more of a fundamental flaw in the small wing design which happens to affect Michael more often than Nico. As for driving styles, Nico is probably not quite as aggressive as Michael, but definitely very similar but for some reason not nearly as busy at the wheel as Michael is.

[Ferraripilot]

Any conjecture regarding what sort of upgrades are coming to Turkey other than a rear wing and updated cooling? I have to wonder if they are ditching the double radiator arrangement....

[JohnsonsEvilTwin]

They will not change the double radiators. Everything that needs doing is being scrutinised to the 'nth degree, and rightly so, it paid dividends in China.

Changing the radiators now would be a huge headache for the team, as the whole design of the car revolves around it being short and stubby.
The "solution" to cooling will probably be rejigged exhaust layout which may solve the problem of heat disspation being be too close to KERS or other sensitive areas inside the car. Cutting Bodywork is a last resort, and it cost them negatively in terms of aero. Expect something less contrived and more elegant now the team have 3 weeks back at Brackley to work on it.
With Bob Bell calling the tune, I expect whatever solution they have to work.

[3one]

They will not change the double radiators. Everything that needs doing is being scrutinised to the 'nth degree, and rightly so, it paid dividends in China.

Changing the radiators now would be a huge headache for the team, as the whole design of the car revolves around it being short and stubby.
The "solution" to cooling will probably be rejigged exhaust layout which may solve the problem of heat disspation being be too close to KERS or other sensitive areas inside the car. Cutting Bodywork is a last resort, and it cost them negatively in terms of aero. Expect something less contrived and more elegant now the team have 3 weeks back at Brackley to work on it.
With Bob Bell calling the tune, I expect it to work.

The radiators would definitely stick, the redesign would be impractical rather than improving on the base setup that they have for china... I would see better chimneys around the sidepod area...

With their plans increasing rear ride height, they would need to put some weight to the rear now to compansate with the weight distribution. This might mean moving the exhaust manifold rearwards...

I won't be expecting much changes to the car in terms of the external, but more of just being more efficient with what they currently have... But do expect the rake to increase on turkey...

[bot6]

I don't think they will radically change the cooling concept, but they will surely refine it. The double decker radiators won't be radically different, but they will probably be a refined, better optimised version. Possibly a bit longer. And certainly a redrawn engine cover and sidepod combo to go with the slight increase in rake and the new rear wing.

And maybe we'll see the return of the Mark III wing.

[Ferraripilot]

I don't think they will radically change the cooling concept, but they will surely refine it. The double decker radiators won't be radically different, but they will probably be a refined, better optimised version. Possibly a bit longer. And certainly a redrawn engine cover and sidepod combo to go with the slight increase in rake and the new rear wing.

And maybe we'll see the return of the Mark III wing.

New more efficient rear wing will hopefully allow them to run the superior downforce mkIII wing (could mkIV be a flexi version of mkIII?). If we see it in Turkey, we know the car has an aero upgrade at the back end and they are expecting superior performance. I need to see Schu on the podium soon....

How can they make their double radiators more efficient? I heard someone mentioning rejigging them. Explain

[PlatinumZealot]

IS it engine cooling (oil? or water?) or KERS cooling that is the problem. Does anyone have a source of information on this?

[mantikos]

IS it engine cooling (oil? or water?) or KERS cooling that is the problem. Does anyone have a source of information on this?

Oil cooler...per TV commentators

[ell66]

about te rake issue, has brawn ctually said there going to do this?

[bot6]

He said they would look into it and they would do it if it brought sizable advantages. He did not say they would do it for sure. I think it's the right way to go: understand the basic concept and trade-offs involved before you put something new on the car.

[marcush.]

you got options to enhance cooling:

1.increase airflow - usually increasing inlet and exit crossection =more inner flow =more drag. That´s what they did in Malaysia.

2.increase cooler core area -this will help heat transfer through bigger surface area .If you are short 1% of cooling -increasing area by one percent may do the trick but : you need to modify :Radiators,sidepods ,ducts the whole shebang.

3.increase heat transfer from water to radiator.
a)by better technology -better tube shapes creating bigger surface
area ,shape,turbulent flow etc..(dimples such)
b)by increasing water speed in the rads.Doing this could be achieved by
increasing water pump speed -increasing heat transfer in the engine as well -
but possibly the water pump does cavitate and airpockets build in the cyl
heads plus your losses due to pump consumption increase.
c)by redesigning the water path through the rad: add more passes through the
radiator with the same number of tubes and your water will remain for longer
length in the rad and will need to speed up .

[atanatizante]

Any conjecture regarding what sort of upgrades are coming to Turkey other than a rear wing and updated cooling? I have to wonder if they are ditching the double radiator arrangement....

Before qualifying Ross Brawn told D.C. and Martin Brudell on BBC One that they`ll bring mechanical updates in Turkey and aero bits and pieces only in Barca.

So maybe they must have been concentrated on changing the rake of the car for now ... this implies pretty much to be done, because it`s a new attack angle, therefore they have to do a new front, new floor and difusser, new sidepods and rear wing too.

[atanatizante]

you got options to enhance cooling:

1.increase airflow - usually increasing inlet and exit crossection =more inner flow =more drag. That´s what they did in Malaysia.

2.increase cooler core area -this will help heat transfer through bigger surface area .If you are short 1% of cooling -increasing area by one percent may do the trick but : you need to modify :Radiators,sidepods ,ducts the whole shebang.

3.increase heat transfer from water to radiator.
a)by better technology -better tube shapes creating bigger surface
area ,shape,turbulent flow etc..(dimples such)
b)by increasing water speed in the rads.Doing this could be achieved by
increasing water pump speed -increasing heat transfer in the engine as well -
but possibly the water pump does cavitate and airpockets build in the cyl
heads plus your losses due to pump consumption increase.
c)by redesigning the water path through the rad: add more passes through the
radiator with the same number of tubes and your water will remain for longer
length in the rad and will need to speed up .

4. Another solution is based on changing the fluid with one how has higher boiling temperature hence higher heat capacity (eg. water-salt solution increase the boiling temperature with aprox.10%), if it`s not against the regs ...

[bot6]

Or changing the materials or surface finish of the radiator grill. That also has an influence.

With the double decker arrangements, just playing with the isolation between the two ducts a bit could prove useful. Or repackaging the KERS system so it stops overheating and singing its wires. There's quite a bit of volume in that sidepod and there are many ways to modify the cooling flow without changing the outer shape: playing around with exhaust manifold layout, radiator shapes, insulation materials and KERS packaging are just a few of the possibilities. They could also duct the excess heat to a low slit à la Renault at the back of the sidepod instead of the gills on top of the exhaust. Then they could further tighten the packaging on the top of the sidepod and improve flow to the beam wing, which would be helped further with the higher rake.

[Ferraripilot]

you got options to enhance cooling:

1.increase airflow - usually increasing inlet and exit crossection =more inner flow =more drag. That´s what they did in Malaysia.

2.increase cooler core area -this will help heat transfer through bigger surface area .If you are short 1% of cooling -increasing area by one percent may do the trick but : you need to modify :Radiators,sidepods ,ducts the whole shebang.

3.increase heat transfer from water to radiator.
a)by better technology -better tube shapes creating bigger surface
area ,shape,turbulent flow etc..(dimples such)
b)by increasing water speed in the rads.Doing this could be achieved by
increasing water pump speed -increasing heat transfer in the engine as well -
but possibly the water pump does cavitate and airpockets build in the cyl
heads plus your losses due to pump consumption increase.
c)by redesigning the water path through the rad: add more passes through the
radiator with the same number of tubes and your water will remain for longer
length in the rad and will need to speed up .

All are valid solutions. Seems to be a simple one really. Design a radiator with more cores which accepts more volume and everything that goes with it.

For some reason I see their exhaust arrangement as not helping their heat situation. A RB style layout with the carbon coating RB employes on the manifolds seems to be the most efficent layout in terms of controlling heat not to mention the most efficient use of the high energy exhaust gases at the diffuser. MB swapping to an arrangement such as this possibly changes the paradigm of the car they were going for, but they have a big qualifying gap to make up and I just have to wonder how they think they are going to make up that gap......