What is the weight of an F1 car

[Paul]

'At all times' basically means car with a few drops of fuel in the tank and full tanks of other liquids, because that is the lightest state it can be in and still function.

That is where BAR where caught- they said extra fuel always had to be in the system for engine to operate, while FIA believed they used it up before pit stops, but then filled enough at the last stop to fit the rules. A bit like that adding lead trick Tyrrell used.

[mep]

One way you possible could cheat the minimum weight rule is to mount heavier tires at the last stop. You drive the race underweighted on soft tires. At the last lap you stop to take hard tires which you manipulated somehow to make them heavier. Of course this is not allowed but I don't expect tires will be weighted alone.

[Caito]

Wheels are homologated.


A similar thing could be achieved changing the front wing.

You have to be over 640kg anytime.

So if you are in 700+kg, you could get a less ballasted(new word) front wing, and still be over 640(so still legal).


Since weight distribution must not be mantained during the race(would be impossible, unless you put weight over the COG) you could probably get away with it.

If the time spent changing the front wing is less than what you can win in track.. why not?

[godlameroso]

In Malaysia don't drivers lose some water weight because of the heat and humidity?

[mep]

There is a rule prohibiting the change of parts like front wings.
Also I don't really understand what you try to achieve with it because you want to stay above the minimum weight. Just changing weight balance?
Well wheels are homologated but can't you do something like filling them with water? Of course drivability would suck but it's just for 1 last lap. This minimum weight rule is something like the flexi front wing. The rule says the car has to be always above 640kg but in reality it just has to be during the weighting procedure.

4.5 Adding during the race :
With the exception of compressed gases, no substance may be added to the car during the race. If it
becomes necessary to replace any part of the car during the race, the new part must not weigh any more
than the original part.

@godlameroso
Yes drivers do lose weight. You simply have to take this into account when loading your car. Also don't forget the pick up rubber. I think I heard once it can make up to 3kg. So this can give you the lost weight from the driver back.

[Caito]

What I meant was.. Let's say a wing has 20kg of ballast.

If you start with 800kg, you could remove that 20kg of ballast and still be within the rules. Of course that would alter the balance of the car, but so does fuel, and so on.


Since they ussually say 10kg= 1 tenth, it could be worth it.

[mep]

I guess what you want to say is you start the race with the lighter wing and therefore become underweight during the race. Short before the end you mount the heavier wing to pass the weight test. Of course this would not be legal because you brake the rule that the replaced part needs to have the same weight and the minmum weight rule of course which we want to get around.

[raymondu999]

I was just thinking. During a race, a car will lose weight through brake wear, through tyre wear, and many other things (maybe even lost parts, perhaps). Do cars actually do fuel+640+a bit of extra padding at the start of the race? To counter that?

[Lurk]

Yep. They take some margin but as always in Formula one, margin is very thin. It is why you see drivers run on marbles at the end of the race. They gain 1-2kg with that.

By the way, there is a exception for cars which loose accidentally some parts.
(Sporting regulation 26.1c)


@mep : Even if we imagine that the drivability would be not so bad, you couldn't fill tyre with water. Tyres can only be filled with air or nitrogen.
Furthermore I don't think adding weight on a mass in rotation (is there any other way to express that in english? I found that weird said like that ) - moreover an unsprung one - is a good idea.
Time loss could be greater than gained time.

[ESPImperium]

In Malaysia don't drivers lose some water weight because of the heat and humidity?

Whitch is why teams usually over ballast their car by a small ammount for that race, its the only exeption on the callender at present, however India is expected to be simmilar so ive been told.

Also the way the drivers drive the slow down lap to get as much --- as posible in terms of marbles now also has an effect as sone cars drive from side to side to get marbles into the sidepods, whitch can add a few kilos to the weight.

[volarchico]

They should deploy a scoop on the in-lap and scrape up 10-20kg of marbles!

[mep]

@mep : Even if we imagine that the drivability would be not so bad, you couldn't fill tyre with water. Tyres can only be filled with air or nitrogen.
Furthermore I don't think adding weight on a mass in rotation (is there any other way to express that in english? I found that weird said like that ) - moreover an unsprung one - is a good idea.
Time loss could be greater than gained time.

It's an interesting question to think about. How does a water filled tire affect your drivability for one last lap in the race?

Just for example lets say you want a 10kg weight advantage during the race. In Shanghai this would have caused 0,4s/lap time reduction during every lap of the race except the last one. During the last lap those 10kg will be added with 4 tires so each tire will have a additional weight of 2,5kg.
When the tire is rotating quickly the water will spread all over the inside wall so the tire remains balanced. The tires rotation inertia will increase so braking and acceleration will get reduced. The higher mass of the tire will also change the dynamic behavior when riding over bums so you will lose some grip. On the other side is a F1 track quite smooth so it's maybe not very much.

While running lighter than the competitors you get:
0,4s/lap times 55 laps = 22seconds.

You can easily afford to run a bit slower during the last lap (let’s say 2 seconds) and still gain a significant amount of time by this.

[hollowBallistix]

400 or 450kg - coolant and oil included - with a mandatory 95kg engine is already very few to a car designed for a 300km/h crash.
IMO, a non mandatory weight would be very costly for little gains...

And yes, big and great drivers like Webber would be fired to lighter one.

Im curious as to why you think it would have very little gains ?

If the car with fluids is only around the 450kg mark, then with driver it's around 520kg, that's 120kg lighter than current

The difference in performance in the cars now between the 640kg weight unfuelled and weighing close to 760kg with fully fuelled is night & day !

They could easily drop the minimum weight with driver & ballast to compensate for the difference in driver weights to about 540kg, that 100kg saving over current, I believe would have a big saving on quite a number of factors.

[Lurk]

I was only talking about ressources spent to gain earned by making a lighter frame in a "free weight" environnement.
I mean, 400-450kg for a complete car is very light. You'll have to spend a lot of ressources to gain maybe 5kg and 0.1s/lap.


Of course, you would have a huge improvement compared to now if you drop the mandatory weight rule.


BTW, I like your idea to compensate driver weight difference.

[godlameroso]

No one that want's to go fast will ever ever ever ever fill a tire with water. As a rule of thumb for every pound you add or remove of unsprung mass, is the same as adding or removing 4 pounds anywhere else.